Frequently Asked Questions - The Human Soul Session 3


Frequently Asked Questions:

The Human Soul


Jesus (AJ Miller) &

Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck)

Session 3

Published by

Divine Truth, Australia at Shakespir


Copyright 2016 Divine Truth

Shakespir Edition, License Notes

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This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of the human soul. The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), on 15th April 2013 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia. In this session Jesus and Mary have further discussions about how the human soul operates, which was introduced in Sessions 1 and 2, describing the principles of resistance, presence and suppression.

Reminder From Jesus & Mary

Jesus and Mary would like to remind you that any document produced by Divine Truth containing any information from Jesus, Mary or any other person includes only a portion of God’s Truth that they have personally discovered.

It does not and cannot contain the entire of God’s Truth since God’s Truth is infinite and humankind will forever continue to discover more of God’s Truth as we progress in receiving more of God’s Love.

Please remember that due to these limitations information contained within this document may need to be revised in the future.

Many other ebooks have been published by Divine Truth, including ebooks translated into a variety of different languages.

Please visit http://www.Shakespir.com/profile/view/DivineTruth or www.divinetruth.com for further information.

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Table of Contents

0. Introductory Comments

1. The principle of “Resistance”

2. The principle of “Presence”

3. Discussion and questions about “Suppression”

0. Introductory Comments

Good day. Mary and I are today continuing our discussion about how the human soul functions, so hopefully you’ve been enjoying the discussion up until now. I know we’ve been quite windbags (laughter) in our previous discussions.

Mary: We’re fairly passionate about this topic.

It’s a very important topic that we want to discuss with you, because we feel quite strongly that unless you know how the human soul functions, you don’t know why things occur between your soul, your physical body and your spirit body, so it’s very important to know how your human soul functions. Now, what we’d encourage you to do, before listening to this particular session, is to look at Session One which was done in April last year, April 2013, and then Session Two which we did last week, which is in April 2014, before you actually look at this session, which is Session Three, on the subject.

In the first session, we basically discussed the principles of all of the different parts of how the human soul functions, in terms of the ideas or concepts. In the second two sessions, last week and this week, what we’re trying to do is to give you more information about those particular concepts and belief systems, in terms of how we can bring these concepts into reality in our day-to-day life.

Questions about how it works or how it looks like in our day-to-day life, that’s our primary focus with this session, and it was also our primary focus with the last session that we did last week. Now what we’re going to do is discuss the last three concepts. We discussed the first – I think it was four or five concepts last week, and now we’re going to discuss the last three concepts, as a part of this introduction about how the human soul functions. Hopefully you’ll enjoy our company while we do that.

1. The principle of “Resistance”

Mary: Today I am here with Jesus, and we’re continuing our discussion of how the human soul functions. The next section we will discuss will be on the principle of resistance.

Yes, interesting principle, resistance. Everyone needs to know about resistance. (Laughter)

Mary: I feel like I already know a lot about resistance.

Most people know about resistance all of their life, but unfortunately most people don’t know it from a soul-based perspective. They don’t understand why they’re resisting, and they don’t understand what resistance does to their soul, how it affects their soul and what goes on inside of the soul, what physically goes on inside of the soul when you resist. It precludes truth from entering you. Of course you can also resist error, so it can also preclude error from entering you, so it’s a very important thing to understand about how resistance works.

Mary: Would you be happy to read us the principle as you’ve outlined it in the document, and then we can discuss it a little bit? Because it actually works almost in a positive and a negative direction as you’ve just alluded to, doesn’t it?

Correct. Let’s read the principles: “Resistance is the principle that truth enters the soul when there is no emotional impediment, as error, resisting the absorption of the truth. Error enters the soul when there is no emotional impediment, as truth, resisting the absorption of the error. Emotional impediments are under the control of the will of the individual, in that the will can be exercised to emotionally release the reason for resistance, and this is the part of humility,” so we’ve got a fair bit to discuss about that.

Mary: Yes we do.

I’ll read the other two paragraphs first, and then we can do the discussion. “This principle defines the reasons for the inability to absorb, which is resistance, in that all absorption, whether truth or error, occur due to emotional openings within the soul, emotional openings that have been created by the will of the individual to emotionally release the resistance. Emotional impediments of error are created by the soul being unable to fully utilise its mind and other attributes, especially love and humility, to resist the absorption of the impediment. This especially occurs during childhood, while the emotional and intellectual development of the soul is yet to mature.”

Let’s look at the first paragraph and maybe discuss that a little. What we’re basically saying is that for something to enter the soul, there has to be inside of the soul no emotional impediment for that to enter, and if there is an emotional impediment, that is resistance. All resistance is an emotion that exists within the soul already.

Now you can have resistance to truth. That’s an emotion that exists in the soul that says, “I can’t accept that truth,” and then you can also have resistance to error. In other words, you can have an emotion in the soul that says, “I can’t accept that error.” We need to understand that. Resistance can be positive when we’re resisting errors, or it can be very counter-positive, or negative, by the fact that we resist truth. But all resistance occurs because of the emotional impediment in the soul that causes the resistance, or you could say, the emotion in the soul that precludes the truth or the error from entering.

Mary: As you go on to say, this is the reason … preclusion means it exists there already, but the reason is resistance for new things entering.

Resistance to absorption (laughter), if we use the terminology we’ve been using.

Mary: It is because there is an emotion that opposes it already within us …


Mary: … and so truth creates resistance to error, and error creates resistance to truth.

… only if it exists as an emotion within us, not if it exists as an intellectual concept, and this is where most people become very confused, because what happens is: they often hear a concept that they agree with and then they go, “I believe that.” No you don’t, you don’t believe it until all the emotional resistance inside of you about that concept is gone. Then you believe it, only then.

Mary: Only then, when the truth enters you emotionally.

Correct. It’s only when the truth enters you emotionally, that you can actually fully believe and accept that truth, and this is where I see most people making terrible errors when it comes to the path of Divine Truth. They think that they’ve heard something so that means that they’ve changed. No, it means you’ve heard something and you remember it; that’s all it means, nothing else. It doesn’t mean you’ve changed.

Change can only occur when the emotional reasons inside of you that are not changing, are released, which is all about the process of feeling those emotions, and experiencing those emotions. We talked about that principle, didn’t we, last week, the principle of progression, which is the principle of releasing the emotions that are preventing progression, basically, and allowing the emotions that will cause progression to enter you. You can’t have the emotions that would cause your progression enter you, unless you release the emotions that prevent your progression on that subject.

Mary: … which is the resistance, so while the emotion that is in opposition is within you, and you’re trying to absorb … Let’s say there’s error in you on a certain subject, and you’re trying to absorb truth upon it, there will be resistance while that emotion …

Correct, and you need to give up absorption, you need to just give it up, you need to say, “I can’t absorb this until I release something,” and if you focus your intention on releasing something, rather than focusing your intention on absorbing something when there’s an impediment there, you will have far more success and progress on the Divine Truth Path.

We will also have far more success progressing towards God and receiving God’s Love, because while we can think of the resistance process as blockage to the truth entering, while we can try to get this truth and we can try to absorb it somehow, there’s this firm feeling inside of us preventing its absorption. What most of us do then is we say, “Oh, it’s in my mind, I’m right.” But there’re these firm ideas and concepts and beliefs inside of our soul as emotions, that prevent this truth, that we now acknowledge in our mind, from ever being acknowledged in the soul. This is the problem; we need to give up trying to even acknowledge it in our mind and we need to connect with, “What does my soul really feel? What is the real feeling inside of me that prevents me from automatically absorbing this truth?”

For example, if I am afraid, what’s the real feeling inside of me that causes my fear to remain? What belief systems, what ideas and concepts inside of me cause me to hold onto my fear, and cause it to remain inside of my soul? Obviously, I need to focus on feeling those because then I’ll feel the fear, and when I feel the fear, the fear can release itself through an emotional process. I’ll be crying probably, feeling, shaking, crying and doing all sorts of things during that process, which may last many hours or days, and then after that is gone, the truth on that particular issue can enter my soul, if I allow it, if I want it.

Sometimes we don’t want it; sometimes we let go of errors but we don’t want the truth (laughs), so we need to work through that as well, because if I don’t want the truth that is another resistance; there’s an emotion in me that causes me to not want that resistance. I need to find that emotion that causes me to be resistive to feeling that truth. That could be rebellion, you know, a feeling of rebellion, or other types of emotions, and we need to allow ourselves to experience these emotions, because they are impediments to our growth.

This is why we say the next thing, where we said, “Emotional impediments are under the control of the will of the individual, in that the will can be exercised to emotionally release the resistance, or the reason for resistance.” This is where I see most people not understanding love or truth. They do not allow themselves to emotionally resist the reason why there is resistance. What they do is, they seek for it intellectually, rather than just trying to feel it emotionally. They go, “Ah, maybe it is this or maybe it’s my Dad did that; when I was little my Mum did that.” You can know a whole heap of things about your past in your head, but unless you’re prepared to feel them, the emotional resistance will not release, and if the emotional resistance does not release, absorption is impossible. You won’t be able to absorb a new truth, therefore you will not be able to progress. It’s as simple as that.

Mary: I have often tried to relate my experience with dealing with addiction to other people. I mean emotional addictions here, because a lot of people encounter, “Oh, I’ve got this addiction with men where I want their attention all the time,” and all of these things. They encounter that knowledge intellectually and then often they judge it. They try to modify that behaviour because they can see it is not right. Or they search, as you said, for the cause with their Dad and try to feel that.

But really my experience with addiction is that when I have an addiction, I have an erroneous belief inside of me that I should be able to get this thing, and that is what I have to feel. That is what creates the resistance to my change, doesn’t it? I have a belief or a feeling that I should be able to get this, and avoid the underlying emotion.

The only real progress I feel I’ve ever made in dealing with, is when I’ve let myself feel how much I want it, not act to fulfil it but feel how much Ì want it and feel the …

… and feel it without judgement.

Mary: Yes, without judgement, just recognise that it is an emotion that is within me that needs to be felt, and that releases some of the resistance I have to continuing the process.

Correct. As a result of the release of that resistance, there is a release of some of the fear that generates the addiction, and so the addiction lessens. This is what we need to understand. No change can take place unless an emotional process is engaged where something is released. I mean no change in either direction. You can’t let go of error and absorb truth unless you release some of the emotion that contains the error, and you can’t let go of truth and absorb an error without you releasing some of the emotion that contains the truth. You can progress or regress, depending on which direction you use your will.

Resistance is not all bad because there are things in your soul that eventually you will resist greatly. In other words, you will have such a strong concept of love and truth inside of your soul, that it will be impossible for a false belief to enter you on that subject, and that’s great.

Mary: This is the really cool bit about this principle, I reckon, the way it is actually a very positive thing. When truth comes to reside in our soul, it will resist the error, and that makes you rock-solid, and that’s awesome, because who wants more error? (Laughs)

It wouldn’t be very nice if we absorbed some truth, and then next week it’s all gone again, because (laughter) you know what I mean, in our soul I mean. Obviously you can do that in your mind; you can absorb some truth and next week you’re totally out of harmony with it. In fact, if you are acting totally out of harmony with what you believe you should be acting, it’s because it hasn’t entered your soul yet. If it enters your soul it’s impossible to act out of harmony with what’s in your soul. That applies to the error as well.

We need to understand that we’re going to continue acting in harmony with the error, and it’s going to be impossible to act out of harmony with the error, until we release why we have the error, so we need to give up on the concept that we can force ourselves intellectually into having a different concept, and we need to start focusing on, “Okay, the only real way for me to change is for me to let go emotionally of the error that I believe. That means going through the experience of that emotional error.

For example, if you have a lot of rage with men, you are going to have to go through that rage with men. You’re not going to be able to intellectually skip over that rage and then progress, because you won’t progress; your soul won’t progress. There might be intellectual changes that occur inside you, but there will be no progress at your soul level. In terms of your condition, you will arrive in exactly the same condition that you would have arrived if you hadn’t done the work intellectually, so it’s pointless.

Mary: In fact, often doing the work intellectually creates a sort of impediment, doesn’t it?

Yes, a further impediment of resistance to what’s going on in your soul. This is where it is critical people understand. If you want to be on the path to God, you must understand your soul, and to understand your soul, you must understand that unless something that’s an error in you releases … and there are a lot of ways to release it; there are some ways you can do it by yourself, and there are some ways you can do it with God’s help, but unless you release it, you will not change. You will not absorb the new truth you think you have, and it won’t be a part of your very life or your very being until you absorb it, and absorption is impossible while you’ve got something in you that causes you to resist the absorption.

Mary: And that is really … you’re saying that your life won’t be different. That is the principle of dominance that we discussed last week. Your soul will dominate, it doesn’t matter what you think, if that exists within in you.

This is why you get people who have the highest intellectual ideals, put them in a situation that is emotionally distraught or traumatic, and they revert back to what their soul will do. If their soul will murder, they’ll murder; if their soul will rape, they’ll rape, if their soul will pillage, they’ll pillage, as the saying goes. They will do any of those things, because the actual soul hasn’t changed. Put a person in a situation where they are under trauma or under pressure, and they will generally always revert back to whatever the soul is, and that’s the principle of dominance, and it will always be the case.

We need to understand that that will occur, so we need to give up this concept that we can intellectually change. We can use our intellect to help change; certainly we can do that, but we can’t change using our intellect to change without any emotional work. We can’t do that; it’s impossible. We need to understand that it’s impossible and give up trying. (Laughs) You know, I see a lot of people still trying to do that, and while you’re trying to do that, stagnation is going to be the only result. No progression can occur unless there is a release of the resistance to absorption.

Mary: This is where you were talking earlier about how it’s possible to do the intellectual work. Some years ago now, I did a workshop with people called “Opening to God,” and on the first morning it was all about getting real about God.

One of the first activities was connecting to our anger with God, and I actually met with quite a bit of resistance from people in the group saying, “I’m not angry with God. God is love. God is loving,” and I would always meet that with saying, “Are you at-one with God?” “No.” “So you have some issues with God, you have some baggage with God, otherwise you’d already be in this faithful, totally-in-the-throes of God’s Love right now.” This is where I can see where people do intellectual work trying to absorb, “God is Love,” but they haven’t released the error that resists that entering them in their soul, and so this … and yet they have intellectual resistance to connecting to the emotional resistance.

Yes, but even that’s driven by another emotion. (Laughs)

Mary: Well, it’s got to be driven by fear or other emotional errors, doesn’t it?

Correct, because the way the soul works is that our mind is really just a tool the soul uses, and if we understand that better we can see that when the mind goes into, “I don’t believe that,” or, “I don’t agree with that,” it’s just responding to the soul’s desire to not believe, the soul’s desire to not understand, and why doesn’t the soul desire to understand something that’s loving and truthful?

It’s only because the soul has some fear about it that it is not willing to either connect to or feel, and this is where we need to understand that every time we get, “No, I understand that, I get that,” when your life is demonstrating that you don’t get it, you’re really convincing yourself away from progression, because you are basically saying, “I’m already progressed,” when you haven’t. It is pointless doing that. That’s like one step further back, to convince yourself you’re progressing when you’re not. It is a very self … it’s delusionment you know. It’s self-deluding to consider that you’re more progressed than you really are, and the main person that you are harming is yourself in that regard. You’re far better off going, “Okay, if I look back over my life, I have not changed on this subject,” whatever the subject may be.

If you’re a man, it could be that every time your wife asks you to go and do something down the shop, you get angry, so you haven’t changed on the subject. You can convince yourself you’re more loving now or whatever, but the reality is that nothing’s changed, so that tells you that you’re resistive to this in your soul somehow. There’s some kind of resistance that’s out of harmony with love inside of your soul, that’s causing you to hold on to some old belief system, that’s causing you to be resistive to progressing to the point where you’re not angry about it.(Laughs)

If you’re a woman with regard to sex, and you feel like every time your husband gets a bit amorous, or your partner gets a bit amorous, you feel, “I feel a bit pushed now; I feel like he is being pushy now,” well there’s some resistance. If you haven’t changed in that in the last five years, then I suggest to you that there’s something in your soul that’s causing that. You need to get to that thing in your soul that’s causing that, rather than convincing yourself you’re all over it now, and it’s your husband’s problem.

This is what we constantly do too. When we live with other people, we have a tendency, “Ah, it’s his problem,” or “ … her problems,” or “ … their problem, they shouldn’t have been living with me.” Or, “They shouldn’t have done that, and that’s why I feel the way I feel.”

No, it’s not. You feel the way you feel because there is resistance in your soul that’s preventing you to progress in love, and if you allow yourself to release that, you will progress, you will make actual progress. If you understand that, your focus wouldn’t be on intellectually trying to grasp something, or trying to have a look at the long list of all the commandments you need to follow and do it every day, you wouldn’t be focused on those things. You would be focused on finding out why you’re resistive in your soul, and you’d want to feel that. You would want to feel that resistance.

Mary: Yes, and you said something crucial there. You said about allowing yourself to connect to these feelings, and even more crucially, you said earlier that it’s under the control of the will of the individual. It’s not something where you just find it and then you just allow; you have to want to do this thing.

Yes. I see a lot of people going … they have this viewpoint, “Yes, I have that but I don’t know why,” (laughs), the answer is, “It’s in your soul, that’s why and you’re resistive to letting it out, and that’s why it’s happening,” and then they go, “But I …” There is this constant viewpoint we hear from many people, “Oh I don’t know why that’s happening to me. It must be something to do with my Mum or Dad, or the energy from the world or some kind of …” No. It’s because it’s in your soul and that’s why. It’s quite simple. God made a very simple progressive soul, and God made it very simple to understand once you get the basics. I feel most people don’t get the basics because they are resistive to even getting the basics, because they don’t want to feel. That’s the biggest problem. They don’t want to feel. Opening your heart to feeling is going to be one of the biggest and most challenging bits of work you have to do to improve your soul.

Mary: Tell me about it. It really is the key to everything, because until we start that deep feeling process, that desire, until we let go of the resistance that we have to being in a feeling state, the false beliefs and the errors that we hold onto about that feeling state, until we do that, very little progression, if any, can actually happen.

No real soul progression.

Mary: It can only happen to the extent that you allow some feeling, which is very different to allowing yourself to be in a feeling state all of the time, isn’t it?

Correct. We need to allow ourselves to be overwhelmed with feeling. This is very, very difficult for most people, given that we’ve all been brought up on a diet of suppressing feelings. The world’s diet is, “Suppress, suppress, suppress your feelings; keep yourself under control. You are not allowed to express anything that’s out of line with whatever your parents think is out of line.” As a result we grow up only expressing emotions that our parents think are okay to express, and for the majority of parents that’s not many emotions.

We grow up very, very limited Our soul is very limited in its ability to express itself emotionally. We can express ourselves emotionally in a safe environment, but we use the excuse, “I’ll go crazy if I express myself,” or, “That emotion will be never-ending if I express it,” or whatever it is. We have literally thousands of excuses, that have all been created by our environment generally, to cause us to not go through the emotional process of expressing our soul, and not confronting the reasons why we have little expression of our soul. It is all to do with our inability to allow ourselves to be emotionally overwhelmed with any emotion. We are totally shut down to that process, most of us, and we need to go through a process of opening that up.

See, Love is an emotion coming from God, and you can’t experience it unless you start opening yourself up to emotion. You are going to be overwhelmed by God’s Love if you allow the emotion, but if you can’t allow yourself to be overwhelmed by anything emotionally, you are going to struggle with receiving any of God’s emotion. If you struggle receiving God’s emotion, then it is impossible for you to grow towards God. Maybe you can grow intellectually, and maybe physically, and maybe in other areas, but your soul is not going to grow.

Mary: Really those other growths, by saying we can grow intellectually or physically or whatever, we can’t even call that real growth can we, because the soul has dominance.


Mary: So it’s temporary change at best.

Yes. This is why the majority of people that we’ve met, who have listened to the principles of Divine Truth for six or seven years, have had little growth, because they have been unable yet, through the exercise of their own will, they have been unable and unwilling to connect to the true emotions that are in their soul, and to get from a state to be willing requires, in itself, processing through some emotions of being unwilling.

Mary: That’s releasing the resistance to the truth, “This is under the control of my will; this will lead to growth, this is a good idea.”

It’s not some magical process that I can rely on at some point in my future that’ll fix me. Those other false beliefs that we have all need to be gotten rid of, and the only way we can get rid of them is by feeling them. We’ve got to feel, “I want this is be easier!” That’s one feeling, one rageful feeling, we’re going to have to go through. It is actually quite easy once you get through that feeling. (Laughs) That’s the irony.

This is the process with a lot of these feelings. Once you get through the feelings, you find the absorption process much, much easier and you do actually start progressing, but if you’re not willing to be honest about the real feeling or feel the real feeling, no progression is ever going to occur, no matter how much intellectual knowledge you have. That’s something we need to understand, and this principle of resistance is very important to understand, just like all the other principles, because they show you what’s going on inside of your soul. For the average person, except for children, there is a large amount of resistance. In children there is no resistance to error or truth.

Mary: Let’s clarify that. You’re saying that there is a large amount of resistance in every adult.


Mary: That doesn’t necessarily mean resistance to truth or to error; it’s just resistance.

It’s just resistance, that is sometimes in operation with truth, and is sometimes in operation with error.

Mary: So it’s really emotions and belief systems.

… which are all emotional.

Mary: Which are all emotional. All belief systems are emotional, within every adult.


Mary: … whether they think it’s there or not, there are beliefs and feelings …

There are thousands of them.

Mary: … about just about every topic you could ever think of.

You could. Any topic you could imagine, most people have a belief about it already, firmly entrenched by the time they’re seven years of age, by their environment and particularly by their parents, if not by their parents, by society they are living in, by the school that they grew up, went to, whatever. They have all of these belief systems, true or false, belief systems inside of them as emotions now, and while they’re inside of them as emotions, now they have resistance. Some of it’s resistance to truth, some of it’s resistance to error.

Mary: Yes, and this is why many people on Earth believe that change is not possible: because nobody ever confronts resistance, so they don’t change.

… so they don’t change. The majority of people on Earth don’t change in their entire life, after the time they are seven or eight years of age. They might grow up a bit, they might intellectually dominate some of their emotional feelings, but from a soul perspective they don’t change. It is very interesting – when you have a look at the iris of a person, you will see that the eye reflects the soul’s condition, and usually by the time a person is seven years of age, after then the iris very rarely changes, negatively or positively, interestingly enough. That is because most of it is firmly fixed by that time, inside of the soul. They then just act out the rest of their life based on what is firmly fixed inside of the soul. Now that doesn’t have to be the case, but it is the case for the majority, well pretty much for everyone on the planet, until they understand these principles at a soul level.

Mary: Okay. Do you want to keep discussing the next paragraph or go into some questions?

I just want to make maybe one more statement about the will. We need to understand the power of the will. Most people don’t even honour their own will. When I say, “… don’t honour their own will,” they don’t go, “Okay, this is what I currently believe, but I can will a change, through the release of the emotional impediment as to why I believe this thing, and will that I accept the truth about this particular thing. I can go through this process.”

It doesn’t mean that you can sit there and go, “I’m going to release the error now … that’s all released, I’m going to accept the truth now, it’s all gone,” without any emotional process, because you have to have an emotional process in order to release the impediment, the resistance, to the absorption of a new truth, but you can use your will to do such a thing. Most people don’t. They sort of go, “Okay, no worries, yes I could change but I’m not too … you know, I am very laissez-faire …” Usually they don’t care too much about change; they don’t really see it’s a problem with what they believe, most people initially, so there is no exercise of the will there. Or they believe that releasing the error is going to be a major trauma to them, so they don’t want to release the error, or whatever other ways they are exercising their will.

We are usually exercising our will very negatively, even to the point where we say we’re not even responsible for what’s in us. We go, “Okay, my parents or society caused this emotion that’s in me. They should have to get rid of it.” No, it’s in you. Only you, through your will, can now get rid of it. That’s the only person now, who is capable of going through the emotional release process that will release this particular problem, this resistance to the absorption of new truth. You’re going to have to do it whether you like it or not, and it doesn’t matter how many people created it, you now have to let it go, through a process that you must go through yourself without anybody helping you, without anybody assisting you.

Now when I say, “ … without anybody helping or assisting,” obviously there are people around who understand this process, here and in the spirit world, who can help you understand the process, but they can’t make you feel it. Only you can choose to feel it and if you don’t choose to feel it, no change is possible. No change, so you will be here in twenty years’ time going, “Why haven’t I progressed?” Well, because you have used your will to not progress, and this is the biggest problem with people’s relationship with God. They have used their will to resist it without understanding how their will is exercised. I feel that is a big issue.

Mary: Yes, I agree. So resistance is really under the control of our will, and you’re talking about change only being possible through the release of resistance as adults. We can talk about kids, maybe, a bit later. What I find interesting is that I see many people engaged … you talked about people who are very lackadaisical about change, or who don’t really care about change. But then I see on the planet there are some people who are involved in a desire to change themselves or their environment, have a career, or these things, but we’re not engaged. We’re engaging our will while trying to deny the soul.

… which is like trying to change while your soul is not wanting to change. That’s pretty hard; in fact it’s impossible. You can’t do it. That’s why hardly anybody ever changes. Even when they think they are using their will, hardly anybody changes because they’re not really using their will.

They’re not feeling what’s inside as resistance. They’re not choosing to feel that resistance; they want to feel the good thing. Not much of the resistance when it comes to error feels good; it all feels hurtful, shameful, hard, angry, fearful, they are all yucky emotions. The average person on earth goes, “I don’t want to feel any of those emotions, I only want to feel good, happy, joyful, whatever. I don’t want to feel sad or afraid or angry,” and see, resistance is very rarely sad. It is mostly angry, fearful, and shameful and those kinds of emotions, and they are the emotions that the majority of people on the planet want to avoid at all costs. People will murder to avoid those emotions generally, and as a result there is very little change, even though they might try to say to themselves, “I am going to be a force for good in the world.” You can’t be a force for good in the world until you are ready to change your own soul and you understand how it works.

Unless you’re willing to let go of what’s error inside of your own soul, how can you ever be a force for good in the world, because what is in your own soul as error will exercise its dominance. So give up the whole concept of trying to be a force for good in the world, and try to be a force that feels its own resistance, (laughter) and you will make some progress. I feel that’s what the majority of us need to do. It’s the expression … if you can see resistance as the expression of the soul’s will, that’s really, really important.

Mary: You’re just saying so many things, I keep having to write down things that I want to go back to, that you said. (Laughter)

Well, maybe we better go back to some of the things first?

Mary: No, go with what you were saying and I will just write a note.

If you think about it, using your soul to resist something is an expression of your will, just like using your soul to desire something is an expression of your will. If we can see using resistance as an expression of our will, then we know that if we’re stagnant, we’re using our will to be stagnant. Then we can ask ourselves the question, “Well, why am I using my will that way?” The only real logical answer can be, “Because I am afraid to actually progress,” and then we can ask ourselves, “What are the feelings of the fear?”

Mary: What are the false beliefs I have about that?

Yes, but also I need to do one even better thing. The fear is a feeling that causes us to express our will in resistance to truth, so the only way we are going to actually progress is to feel the fear and not talk about it anymore; we need to feel it. We can go through the intellectual exercise, “What is this fear about?” We might even know what it is about intellectually, but unless we feel it, no progression is going to happen.

I know at some point I am going to have to get from, “I see that I am afraid of that,” into, “I am afraid of that and I feel that, and I am crying because I am so afraid of it.” I am going to have to get to that point to release the resistance. I can intellectually do these gymnastics saying, “Yes I know that;” no, no, no you don’t know anything yet until you’ve felt the resistance go. Until you feel it leave you, which is through an emotional experience that’s going to be quite traumatic. Anything associated with shame, guilt, fear, anger is all going to be a traumatic emotional experience, painful to experience. This addiction to avoid pain is a major problem on the planet. We need to have an addiction to experiencing everything. That would be great, (laughter) including experiencing pain.

Mary: Then it wouldn’t be an addiction though, would it?

Of course it wouldn’t be an addiction because we would be experiencing everything, but it would be wonderful if we all changed our viewpoint about pain. See, what we mostly do, most of the time we want to blame everything else for our pain. We don’t want to feel it. We want other people to make it go away. That’s bad. We want to feel our pain; that’s going to be the thing that makes us progress.

Now you had a whole heap of questions for me. (Laughter) Have they all gone now?

Mary: Well I think it all comes together. There are little things I’d like to clarify in some of the things you said, but I feel you’ve got the message across. There are other questions I am trying to formulate about …

If that’s the case, can I just say a bit more about the expression of will? (Laughter) Is that alright? (Laughter) Well, most people, I notice, who are in stagnation, which is actually demonstrating they are in resistance, most people I notice that are stagnant, they always come up and say, “I don’t understand why I am in resistance. I don’t understand why I am stagnant,” and to me, this smacks of irresponsibility, because if you understand how the soul works, you would go instead, “I am stagnant because I am choosing to be.”

Mary: This is the understanding of our will, which is what God really wants us to understand in this Earth incarnation.

… or in our entire life in fact.

Mary: Yes, but this Earth incarnation, I feel, is very purposeful to help us to really see the expression of our will in action, and to become sensitive to that. When we are saying, “I don’t know why,” we’re really missing that first very crucial lesson, that we have a will, aren’t we?

Not only that crucial lesson, we’re missing this crucial lesson, that we are responsible for the exercise of our will.

Mary: Sorry; that’s what I meant.

Do you know what I mean? We have a will; we need to understand that. We also need to understand that I and only I am responsible for the exercise of my own will. No one else can do it for me, no one, not even God, will do it for me. If I am stagnant, the only reason why I am stagnant is that it’s something I am choosing to do. Resistance is an expression of my will, so when I am in resistance, I have a responsibility to find out why I have chosen to be in resistance. And it is a choice. There is a soul-based emotional choice going on inside of me, that causes me to wish to remain resistant. I need to take responsibility and say that I have created it, and I need to release it if I want to change.

It doesn’t matter how many teachers I have, and it doesn’t matter how many people I have helping me, and it doesn’t matter how many times I talk about it, and it doesn’t matter how many times I hear something about it. Unless I am willing to work, get to the emotion inside of me that causes this resistance, and unless I am willing to take responsibility to feel that emotion, I will not change.

It doesn’t matter how many people try to help me, it doesn’t matter how long they try to help me, it doesn’t matter what magical things they can do to help me, I will not change until I go through that emotional experience, and that is the pain and suffering that’s mentioned in the Padgett Messages, that every spirit who has ever arrived in the spirit world has to go through, in order to start embracing the full use of their will. There is always pain and suffering associated with the unlawful exercise of our own will, and I say unlawful from the point of view of God’s Laws.

Every time we exercise our will unlawfully, out of harmony with God’s loving laws, we are going to have to go through a painful emotional experience, now or later. It doesn’t matter when; it’s going to have to happen, and we will not change on that issue until it happens, until we actually go through that painful emotional experience. This is where I feel people need to understand responsibility. They are responsible for where they are right now. They are responsible for their own resistance. No one else can help them through their own resistance if they are unwilling to do it. They need to exercise their will.

Mary: I feel that it would be great to have a discussion about will with you at some time, because I know for myself, when we first moved in together … and I see this around many, many people that I know and meet, which is why I bring it up, I didn’t have an understanding of just how my will was being exercised, in every way. Like, in every emotion, action, projection. All these things are an expression of my will, and much of it I regarded as just normal.

And automatic.

Mary: Automatic. I hadn’t ever considered how my will was being exercised. It was just in ‘automatic,’ and I think perhaps that’s why I feel so passionate about this lesson of the will, because I see that most people operate in ‘automatic’ surrounding their will, and that’s why they get to places when they go, “I don’t know why I am like this.” Because it’s not been inculcated into them, as you often say, that they have a will that they are responsible for.

I didn’t want to be responsible, because I didn’t like being faced with the truth about how I was using my will, and the effects of how I was using my will. I’d never had much feedback, because I’d always been in situations where people shared, had agreement with me about how the will should be exercised around certain issues, areas, actions, situations. It had never been confronted.

Beginning to travel and things, that helped me, going to other countries, recognising more, but I just feel most people operate in a state of complete unawareness, not completely unaware that they have a will, but the majority, or the multitude, of ways in which a will is expressed in a day, and how that can be in harmony with love and truth or in harmony with error. I feel that most people, we are literally not raised to have that awareness, but we need it, if we’re going to deal with these things.

Yes, but also, while most people will understand that they make decisions intellectually, very few people actually understand that most of their decisions are made before they make the intellectual decision. Most of their decisions are made emotionally; they are set inside of their emotional condition. Their will to either retain that emotional condition rather than examine it honestly is quite strong. You look at the majority of people who resist any discussion we have with them. The majority of times they are actively using their will to not examine themselves; they want to have no self-examination. All they want is for somebody to tell them, “You’re right.”

Now if we were all right, we would all be at-one with God. We’re not all right and we need to understand that we’re not, and the only way that we are going to become right is by releasing the error, the wrong, that’s inside. That is an emotional process, and you can try that intellectually for the next fifty years, and there will be barely any change whatsoever. The only change you would have made in that fifty years is the time you felt an emotion.

Mary: This is where there can be … it almost feels like there are layers of resistance, because when you’re speaking with someone who doesn’t even want to see the emotional impediments, the errors within them that create their resistance, they don’t even want to see them. They even have resistance to the awareness that there is error.

But even that is caused by an emotion.

Mary: It is.

Yes, this is what I am saying. Every piece of resistance, even the intellectual denial that I have a problem, is caused by a feeling inside of me of why I want to deny. There’s always something driven by the emotion. Even the thought, “I want to deny this,” which comes instantly, usually before the person formulates the thought from a logical process, they are already denying it, before they even think about what they are doing most of the time, that came from the emotional condition inside, “I want to deny this; I want to get away from this pain that I am going to have to feel if I go down that road. I want to deny that.”

This is where we’re using our will to deny our pain, and as soon as you do that you’re going to create error, you’re going to create resistance. You’re going to create resistance to truth, but you’re also going to create error through addictive processes. You’re automatically going to have an addiction now where you’re denying that pain. For every single pain you deny in yourself, an addiction will be created to correct it.

For the majority of people, they’ve got thousands of pieces of pain in them, that they’re trying to deny themselves from their childhood experience. As a result they have thousands of addictions, most of them emotional, that they’re trying to suppress this pain with. It’s an automatic process driven by the soul’s will, and we need to understand that it’s the expression of the will.

You can’t go, “I didn’t know I was doing that.” No, your soul is exercising your will and God’s not going to let you off the hook for that. God is not going to say, “You say you didn’t know you wanted to murder somebody? Or you say you didn’t know you wanted to rape somebody, or you say you didn’t know you wanted to yell at your children and bash them, you say you didn’t know that you wanted to have men look after you? Are you saying you didn’t know these things?”

The reality is that the majority of us know these things and deny them. That’s the reality. We use our will to deny, we use our will to cover it all over, we use our will to create a facade, we use our will to not progress, so we can’t then say, “Why am I not progressing? It must be somebody else’s fault. Maybe the teacher’s at fault, maybe he taught me the wrong thing,” or whatever. No, God’s a great teacher. God’s trying to teach you every day, and if you’re in resistance to God’s teaching it’s because you’re using your will to be so. That’s the only reason why it’s happening. These are important things for people to understand, I feel.

Mary: What I was wanting to ask you about before, about the layers of resistance, is simply about this thing that I find when I am talking to people sometimes, and I feel it inside of myself as well. You can have a huge emotional resistance even to seeing yourself.

That you’re resisting. (Laughs)

Mary: Yes, that you have resistance within you, and speaking to that person about issues of truth is very, very difficult because they don’t want to see anything. Then you can talk to someone who has worked through that emotion enough, to allow the idea that they do have errors within them that are resisting truth, and that conversation is much easier, because we don’t have this emotional error inside of us that is saying, “There’s nothing to see, and I don’t want to see.”

Well yes. There are a lot of emotions that drive that, obviously. For example, there is the emotion of, “Don’t tell me I’ve got something wrong with me, because it must mean that I am a terrible person.” There are so many emotions that drive these thoughts of resistance, and these emotional resistances need to be felt in order to be released, so if you have something come up where you automatically think somebody thinks you’re a terrible person, well it’s probably that you have a feeling deep down that you’re a terrible person that you need to feel, so feel it.

Once you feel it and release that, then every conversation won’t be tainted with the thought that maybe you’re a terrible person, and that’ll be fantastic for you. You will be able think with more clarity; you will be able to act like you’re not a terrible person all the time. You’ll be able to be less suspicious about people’s comments to you, instead of believing that they always think you’re terrible. You’ll think that there might be some other motive why they’re saying what they’re saying, and so forth. Unless you release that emotion, this emotion is going to taint every interaction, every part, every aspect of your life.

You see this happening every day with people. You go, “There’s another emotion that’s tainting every aspect, and there’s another one that’s tainting every aspect of your life.” You’re resistant to feeling that emotion and, as a result, you’ve got to look further. What’s the emotion that’s causing you to be resistive to feeling the emotion? There’s usually another emotion there, and these are usually things like shame, feelings of fear that we don’t want to feel, fear that we’re a bad person, fear that there is something intrinsically wrong with us, and things like that.

These are all emotions that cause us to be very, very resistive to other emotions. It’s sort of like, if you’ve got an emotion that causes you to be resistive to feeling other emotions, can you see if you always skip over that emotion to feel that emotion, this emotion is going to slow down your progression in major ways. You’re better off feeling that emotion, that emotion that wants you to be resistive to hearing feedback, the emotion that wants you to be resistive to feeling other emotions of sadness, guilt, shame and other things. You are better off going through, “What’s this feeling?” If this feeling is rage then feel it. Don’t take it out on other people, feel it. Go into your bedroom, go into a private place, feel it, express it, get it out of you, connect with it. Then it will drop away. When it drops away then it’s free sailing into the next emotion.

Mary: Exactly.

Okay, so we’ve got that they’re under the control of our will.

Okay, I think I have made that plain (laughter) that we are responsible. (Laughter) God created us to be self-responsible beings and every time we go, “I don’t know why this is happening,” we’re not being a self-responsible being. We’re not exercising our will to find out. God wants us to exercise our will to find out everything, everything about the universe, everything about ourselves. We need to be self-responsible beings to do that, so one of the lessons we need to learn is, “I need to become a self-responsible being where I acknowledge that if I am not progressing, it’s because I am not exercising my will to do so.” Is that enough I’s and my’s for everybody? (Laughter)

Mary: I don’t know, but it probably needs saying. (Laughter) Okay.

How about we talk about the adult-child contrast.

Mary: Yes, let’s do that. As an adult, my resistance is under my control.


Mary: It’s my responsibility.

My responsibility. I am the only person that can change it.

Mary: Whereas, as a child, a few different things happen, don’t they? A child doesn’t have a developed sense of itself or its will, and it’s very much at the mercy of its environment, isn’t it?

Correct. What we’ve just said applies primarily to adults. If you’re talking to a child under the age of seven, particularly under the age of seven because that’s … by the time they get to seven years of age, they usually have a fully developed brain. They have the same kind of senses that we generally have as adults, and they usually have some connection to their emotional state still, but they also now have some sense of logic, some sense of understanding of the world. By this stage they are starting to exercise their own will to small degrees, which increase through the teenage years until they are exercising their will completely.

Now when a child is a child, as you correctly point out, there is a large amount of external control on the child, and so the child having or doing something is largely the expression of its environment’s will. If that child is screaming in the middle of the room, and yelling and screaming at us and the child is three, it’s largely an expression of the person he is screaming at, their will. There’s something inside of them that’s causing resistance, that causes this child to act in this manner.

Now it might be an allowance of being controlled that causes the child to attempt to control, for example, and that is the thing we’re resisting inside of ourselves as an adult. But we can’t say that the child has fully developed its will and so therefore the child is fully self-responsible for that action.

Obviously, as the child’s growing, it’s becoming self-responsible and we want to teach it to be self-responsible, but we can’t teach a child to be self-responsible if we as an adult are not responsible, if we disclaim all responsibility for our own life. How can we ask the child to be responsible for its own life?

Mary: You’re talking there about responsibility of the child and resistance within the adult. I’d like to ask you about how resistance is created within the child, because obviously as an adult, that resistance, the emotional beliefs and feelings, are within me. Well if they’re truthful, they create resistance to error, if they’re error-based they create resistance to truth, but as a child it’s almost as if we arrive with no resistance.

Correct, we arrive with no resistance at the time of conception, not at the time of birth. By the time we reach the time of birth, we already have some of the resistances of our parents in our soul. If you say, “… at the time of conception, the child’s soul has a complete openness to the environmental experience, and it has no developed intellect to prevent the environmental emotional experience. As a result, it starts absorbing the emotional experiences of its environment.”

If the father, for example, when the child is conceived, projects at the child that he doesn’t want it, in that moment the child feels the emotion without having any intellectual barrier against it. The child feels that emotion and he’s got no emotional barrier against it. The emotion, of the father’s desire to not have the child, enters the child, so the child will feel from that moment, “Daddy didn’t want me.” Unless Daddy changes his emotion … like, months later he might decide he really wants the child, the child will feel that too. The child will be open to the absorption, because there is no impediment or resistance affecting the stopping of the absorption, so the absorption will naturally occur. This is where it becomes critical what the parent’s emotions are, towards the child in particular.

Mary: Because they go on to create the resistances, either truthfully or error-based resistances that are in the child.


Mary: Just to clarify something that you said as you were talking: You were talking about the child not having an intellectual barrier to …

… or an emotional barrier. There is no developed intellect, because the child doesn’t have a developed brain at this point, and there’s no emotional barrier because there’s no truth-based emotion inside of the child’s soul that would resist the feeling coming towards it.

Mary: But it might be truth that’s entering the child, if there is no error there to resist it.

It might be truth. This is the beautiful thing about the child. A child will experience every emotion of truth that’s in the parent – it will enter the child – and the child will experience every emotion of error that’s in the parent, and that will enter the child. Now you can think about the potential of that.

Mary: I often think of that.

Yes, it’s just amazing the potential of that. Imagine if every child only experienced emotions of truth and love that entered the child, and no emotions of error and hatred and fear ever enter the child. By the time the child is born it’s completely open to the absorption of truth, and so it’s going to pick up truth (Jesus clicks his fingers repeatedly) bang, bang, bang. It’s going to be so rapid that by the time it is three, it’s going to be speaking twenty-five hundred languages, it’s going to be a mathematical genius, it’s going to be playing musical instruments, doing whatever it desires, because there is no resistance that came from the parents.

Mary: That is, there’s resistance but it’s to error, not to truth.

Correct, because if we do it right as parents there’d be resistance to error and no resistance to truth, and that is an amazing place potentially, for the child. Of course, there has never been a child on this Earth that’s ever experienced that, but that is the potential of our experience. If you think about that potential, it’s amazingly wonderful.

Mary: Yes, it’s pretty amazing, hey. Now going back to my question, (laughter) you said that there’s no intellectual or emotional barrier with which the child can prevent the truth or the error entering them. To me that implies that as an adult with a developed intellect, we can present an intellectual barrier. Is that what you are meaning to convey?

Well, it can assist you with your emotional absorption, certainly, because you can use logic to help a person see that their emotional impediment must be an error. Do you understand what I mean by that? I can reason with you and say, “Okay, your concept of love is that you can defend your family to the death. Now if every family took that approach, then of course there’d probably be a lot of deaths. If I killed your child and you killed my child, I killed your brother, you killed my brother, I kill your wife, you kill my wife, and I kill your husband, by the end of it, there would be none of us left, not very logical.”

So you can appeal to the logic of the individual, and show them, okay, there is a problem with one of the soul-based beliefs inside of their soul that causes them to accept this belief that they can defend themselves to the death, and prove to them through logic that’s an error. Now of course they still don’t know that it’s an error, or know that it’s the truth what you’ve just said, from a soul perspective, because they haven’t released the error yet. They haven’t released the emotional reason why they believe they should be able to defend themselves to the death.

They haven’t done that, but you can help them, at least logically, see that such a belief must be an error. Now, with a child you can’t do that very easily, particularly if it’s in the womb, you can’t do that at all. If a child’s just a baby without any formed intellect or method of communication verbally, you can’t do it then either. It’s only after they get to talk, and start speaking and stuff like, that you can start to do those kinds of things with the child, but you can do it with the adult.

Mary: So it’s about employing logic, but also it sounds like it’s about an issue of choice. An adult can use their intellect to choose: “I’m going to listen to this person and not listen to that person, I am going to walk away,” or …

Well the choice is in the soul still, but we can use our intellect to help us come to some kind of resolution in the soul where we now make a different choice. We can say, “Okay, my current choice is not logical; my current choice causes me to cause all this damage to other people. Do I want emotionally to keep doing that? Do I still want to hurt my children?” is a good question most parents need to ask themselves. Because if they are truthful about it, many parents would have to say, “Yes, I do want to keep hurting my children. I would rather hurt my children than feel my own pain.”

Most parents actually, truthfully, are in that state. But if we get beyond that state, we start going intellectually, “Do I want this to stay the same?” I would then go to find the emotional reason, I would use my mind to find the emotional reason, and experience the emotional reason, as to why I feel like that. This is where you can use logic and reasoning to assist a person to grow, but you can’t grow without doing the emotional change.

Mary: Sometimes it almost feels to me, that we employ our mind as a last resort. We try to work our way back through the resistances that have been put up emotionally from a soul perspective, to try and even get in touch with them, and a lot of times kids are just more connected to their emotional selves.

Yes, it’s a lot easier with a child. With a child, if I sit down with a child for a minute, usually I can get them into an emotional reason as to why they chose to take an action that was unloving, but as an adult you can spend months and months and months. I’ve spent five years with some people, talking with them every single day, every week for five years, and they still haven’t seen that their action was unloving after all of that. It doesn’t matter how much logic you use; because they are unwilling to address the emotional reason inside of them, they won’t change.

And yet with a child you can do it in five minutes, ten minutes; usually it’s all done. A lot of times with a child, particularly if it’s a younger child, like three or four years of age, you can just hold them and feel with them, and they go through the emotional experience. Try doing that with an adult and come out unscathed! Most adults would potentially kill you before they allow that to occur. (Laughter)

Mary: Yes. No, it’s interesting about kids isn’t it, and it is such a dream to have a child just absorb truth, and the resistance to error within that child, if that was absorbed by the time they’re seven, it would change the world.

There’d be no resistance. There’d be resistance to error and no resistance to truth. How remarkable would that child be. That kind of child, by the time it is seven or eight years of age, would be standing in front of worldwide audiences showing them truth. The child is not going to be frightened, scared. He’s not going to have any fear in him. He’s going to able to express himself very clearly, connected with his emotions at all times. Our potential as a human race is so great, even on Earth, if we understand how the soul works, but only if we understand how the soul works.

Mary: … and if we live our lives in accordance with the principles of how the soul functions. Like, we wouldn’t waste so much time trying to get solutions using other methods; we wouldn’t parent in a way that ignores the soul.

And we wouldn’t spend millions and billions and billions of dollars on remedy processes, on finding the next pill to cure a problem. Honestly, we have huge amounts of wasted time on this planet, because we are so focused on preventing pain. We have huge amounts of wasted time that goes into preventing the soul experience, which is the opposite direction we need to take.

Now if you could generate a pill that could help you feel some emotion, that would be a far better use of your time than generating a pill that suppresses it. All this anti-depression medication and everything that goes on, suppressing emotion, honestly you’d be far better off developing a pill that allows the experience of emotion in a safe manner, than you would developing a pill that suppresses emotion.

Mary: That pill would never work though, because you can’t overcome the dominance of the soul through something. Some people who take drugs, illegal, illicit drugs, say, “Oh, it helps me experience my emotions,” but it doesn’t.

It doesn’t. No, it doesn’t; you are experiencing it with someone else.

Mary: It doesn’t, with someone else, usually with some spirits involved, and the resistance towards certain emotional experiences is still in place. Is that all we’ve got on resistance?

No. I feel we need to go through each point that I wanted to raise because we haven’t discussed all of them. I want to discuss next, the fact that we are allowed to resist. (Laughs)

I feel quite strongly that we need to see that we are allowed to resist anything we want. One part of the exercise of our will is that we are allowed to exercise our will to resist. It’s very interesting what happens inside of us psychologically when we go through this process of acknowledging that we are allowed to resist, because what often happens is we don’t resist anymore after that. It’s very interesting from a psychological perspective about why that is.

A lot of our resistance is generated by a feeling of rebellion, and when we say to ourselves, and when we acknowledge inside of us emotionally, that we are allowed to rebel, we then start questioning why we’d want to. Once we start questioning that, usually we start going through the emotion. I find a lot of people, when we start saying to them, “You’re resistive,” they go, “Oh, am I?” and I say, “But you’re allowed to resist.” “Oh I don’t feel like I am. I can’t …” If they, for a change, acknowledge that they are allowed to, that God’s given them free will so that means they’re allowed to use their will to resist, when they say, “I’m just resisting feeling fear,” then a lot of times they start feeling fear. When they say, “Oh, I’m just resisting feeling sad,” then they start going, “Oh, I’m resisting feeling sad. I’m allowed to resist.” Then they start crying (laughter) a lot of the times.

That’s because we need to acknowledge that it’s our will that’s involved with the resistance, as to why that process occurs. I feel that that’s very, very, important for people to understand. You need to acknowledge that you are allowed to resist. You’re allowed to be stagnant. Stop blaming other people for it. It’s your choice but you’re allowed to choose that, if that’s your choice; you are allowed to choose it. It’s interesting, psychologically. When you see that you’re allowed to, you will often feel less rebellion towards the emotion that causes that resistance.

I feel that’s a very important point most people need to understand.

Mary: I’m just thinking about it in terms of truth, because we have resistance to error when we’re in truth, and resistance to truth when we’re in error. But you are stating that acknowledgement of the resistance allows us to simply feel the emotion which is in play, more freely.

It’s not the acknowledgement of the resistance, because that’s one part. What I am talking about here, is the acknowledgement that I am allowed to resist. That’s a different thing to acknowledging the resistance itself. Can you see that it’s two separate things? On one hand I am allowed to resist, and on the other I am seeing what I am resisting, which is two different processes. I am allowed to resist what I don’t … I am allowed to choose to not see.

If I can give a closer illustration of how that may work: Often I find with people, you start seeing the tears run down their face, but they don’t want to cry, and you say to them, “Look, you’re allowed to cry,” and they go, “I know, I know. I just can’t.” And I go, “You’re allowed to not cry. You’re allowed to shut it down if you want,” and often after I say that, they burst out crying.

Now why is that? Because they have now acknowledged that they are allowed to make a choice to resist, and then they automatically start questioning why they’re making that choice, emotionally. They question that immediately.

This is something we need to understand. It’s very different from the will part of it, this is. What we’re saying is, “Resistance is all about the exercise of our free will.” And what we are saying is, “When we are in denial, we’re exercising our free will to deny.” But we also need to acknowledge that we’re allowed to deny. We’re allowed to not cry, we’re allowed to not feel our fear, we’re allowed to not feel our shame. We’re allowed to not feel anything if we want.

You’ll probably get depressed like that, but you’re allowed to do it if you want. You’re allowed to create depression. You’re allowed to create disease if that’s what you want to do to avoid all of your emotions. You’re allowed to do all of those things, and God will let you do it. God will let you do it because you are allowed to.

Once we acknowledge that we are allowed to, oftentimes we start getting into the actual emotion that causes us to want to. That is very different to saying, “We’re allowed to feel or not feel our emotion,” because what we’re doing psychologically is, we’re acknowledging the power of our will, and how it is being exercised. That’s a very powerful thing to help you through resistance.

Mary: That’s a good point. Okay, so this one’s a pearler for me. (Laughter) I wonder why I wanted to skip it.

Yes. I felt you were skipping quite a few things here, so we had to go back to them.

Mary: We can’t actually surrender fully and experience a causal emotion, so we can’t actually release, which is what’s required to release a causal emotion while there still exists within us any form of resistance to surrender.

… and to surrender as well.

Mary: And to surrender.

If we have resistance to experiencing the emotion, and we have resistance to the process of surrender, which is, basically, resistance to the process of allowing ourselves to be overwhelmed by emotion, then we are going to find it very, very difficult to experience the emotional error, because all emotional error is painful to experience.

There is always pain associated with emotional error, and as a result of the emotional error being painful, we’re going to want to avoid it. Unless we understand that, the desire to avoid the emotional error, and the desire to be overwhelmed – to not allow ourselves to be overwhelmed, I should say – will cause resistance to experiencing the emotion.

Sometimes I see people getting close to the emotion, and then this other secondary emotion, which is really a big emotion, kicks in, and that’s the emotion of not wanting to be overwhelmed. They don’t allow themselves to be overwhelmed, and so a few little trickles come down their face and they go, “It’s wonderful to connect to that,” and I say, “You haven’t even started connecting to that yet. You’re allowed to not cry (laughter), you’re allowed to choose to suppress the big grief that’s inside of you, that you need to experience.”

Mary: It’s so funny talking about it, because you’re so light-hearted and joyous and enthusiastic about it. To me it is still very much a serious business, so I can feel (laughter) so I am apologising for my seriousness about this, because …

But you have experienced, haven’t you personally, the experience of not wanting to surrender, even though you know the emotion is there to surrender to.

Mary: Absolutely.

I feel that most people have had that experience, where they feel an emotion inside of them that wants to come out, and they keep it under control. That’s a fear of surrender, or a fear of being overwhelmed by the emotion, which is caused by all other kinds of emotions like, “Worried about what other people think, worried about what it’s going to look like, worried about how people are going to react.” All those kinds of things cause those suppressions of that emotion.

Mary: Yes, and false beliefs about survival of emotion, and all kinds of crazy things.

And that it’s never going to be never-ending; a lot of people feel that. “If I start feeling that, I’ll still be feeling that in ten years’ time.” That’s a physical impossibility with the soul. It’s physically impossible to feel an emotion in its pure state for ten years, five years, or three years or two years, or one year even. It’s physically impossible. If you’re feeling emotion for one year then you are not feeling it in its pure state. It’s usually hours, sometimes days, and in very, very unusual circumstances and conditions, weeks.

Mary: Isn’t it just kind of crazy, to the point of almost farcical, that we spend so much energy avoiding something that could be over in two or three hours? This is the power of these error-based beliefs that create resistance. They are so powerful, aren’t they.

Well they are powerful. They’re not more powerful than God’s Love or anything, but they are powerful.

Mary: We give them power over our life.

We give them power. We honour them. Because we have such an honour of fear, we honour the emotion that keeps us locked up, and in a way it’s sort of like we nurse it in our bosom. We hold it to ourselves, and want to keep it with us the rest of our life for some reason. We almost have this longing to do so. (Laughter)

Mary: I don’t feel like that.(Laughter)

Yes you do, because you are doing it.(Laughs)

Mary: It’s not an affectionate feeling though.

No, but for many it is an affectionate feeling. You can almost feel the nostalgia in them when they’re talking about it. I’ve had many conversations with you, where there is this nostalgia about wanting to hold on to a specific emotion, and that’s all about, “I want to nurse this thing. I want to feel this way for the rest of my life if I can,” – type of thing.

Mary: Yes, and a lot of people romanticise pain …


Mary: And if you’re being embraced by someone who romanticises pain, you can get nostalgic about your sadness.

Well, because you have an emotional addiction to romanticising pain, because what happens is you get approval from that parent by romanticising pain yourself. It’s very dangerous when you do that. It’s very dangerous for your own progression. These are all blockages or errors that cause resistance in your soul, to the growth that needs to occur, and this is what I was saying. Most people are holding this stuff to themselves in almost a worshipful state about the emotion. When I say “worshipful,” what I mean is they honour that fear above all else.

The fear of the emotion is greater than love, it’s greater than truth, it’s greater than anything; it’s greater than their partner, it’s greater than their own children. They will abuse, maybe even assault them physically, or even just yell and scream at them verbally, just to avoid this pain. This pain is telling you it’s greater than your idea or concept of love. Fear inside of you causes this, and it’s sad that it gets to this state, but we need to see that state, and we need to start feeling the emotion in that state, as to why that is.

Why are we so afraid to feel pain? There is a major problem in humanity. Why are we so afraid to feel it? Sure, we have beliefs, for example, beliefs that it will be never-ending. Well, that’s just a false belief. God knows it’s not never-ending; God knows that it will end. If you don’t know it will end, then you are not connected to God in that state; it’s just a false belief you have. God created your soul for all this pain to end. God created this fool-proof system, where all the pain eventually has to leave you. It will leave you one way or the other. You just have to embrace the process. If you understood the process better you might embrace it more. That’s why we’re going through this material of How the Soul Functions.

Mary: On this point though, we’re saying that while there is resistance within us to the state of surrender, we’re not going to release, surrender towards a causal emotion, we’re not going to be able to release that emotion. We must be willing to feel the error.

And feel the resistance. We’ve got to feel the reason why we don’t want to be overwhelmed by that emotion. That’s what we’ve got to feel. That’s the error we’ve got to release. Feel why you don’t want to be overwhelmed.

Now there’s a lot of judgement on this planet about emotion. Man, the amount of criticism we get from people about emotion; it’s intense. You get that criticism every single day in your life. You know it’s society-based criticism about feeling emotion, and this is why most of us don’t do it, because we are so afraid of society. We’re so afraid of what everyone else thinks, that we don’t go through the natural process that a child goes through, that God created us to go through to release error and embrace truth.

Mary: I feel that what you’re saying is so important, and I don’t want to make it too jumbled for the listener, but you were talking about the need to surrender to causal emotion, and you were talking about removing the error that creates the resistance to that state.

The resistance to surrender.

Mary: Yes, to the state of surrender. Earlier on, in your introduction to this principle, you said that there is not much resistance in grief.

True grief. See, grief is the causal emotion, and when a person is feeling true grief, usually in that state they’re not resistive to their emotion. It’s quite good; usually, by the time a person’s got to that state, they’ve already gone through all the resistances needed to get to that state. Generally, most people, by the time they get to true grief, and I am not talking about manufactured grief, or rebellious grief, or angry grief, or any of those other types of things which are not grief at all but rather rebellion, I am talking about the true feeling of grief within the soul, then usually most of their emotional impediments about feeling that emotion have disappeared by that stage, about that particular subject.

It’s the process of getting there which is littered with huge amounts of resistive emotions, huge amounts of error-based emotions and error-based beliefs which are all emotional, which cause us to not want to be overwhelmed by grief. That is usually the work we need to do. Finding them and releasing them. Feeling them is the only way to release them. You’ve got to feel every one of them, and that’s the work. We need to allow ourselves to go through the process.

Now if you receive some of God’s Love, it softens your soul to feeling. It’s highly likely you will go through the process if you receive some of God’s Love, but if you don’t receive some of God’s Love, you’re still going to have to go through the process. It’s just without God that you’re going to have to go through the process, and that’s going to be a long labour-intensive process which, by the way, I don’t necessarily recommend, but it’s better than not doing it at all. (Laughter)

If you’re going to choose to do it without God, then at least do it, don’t put it off altogether, which is what most people do on Earth. They put it off altogether, but the reality is that we need to talk later, and in another session, about the relationship between God’s Love and how it softens the soul, how it can help all of these aspects of the soul grow, and therefore soften the soul into the feeling state that it needs to have in order to progress. However, often people have a lot of resistance about feeling God’s emotion too, so we’ve got to talk about these things before they’ll even feel some of God’s emotions.

Mary: Yes, okay.

Does that answer the point that you were getting at though? Not really?

Mary: No, not really but …

What was the point you were getting at?

Mary: It’s obvious I am not able to articulate the point very well.

What is it you are trying to say?

Mary: No, I don’t know. (Laughter)

What’s the problem basically?

Mary: The question …

Why do you feel it’s unresolved? There’s a reason inside of you why something feels unresolved to you.

Mary: Umm, it just seems …

There’s a resistance in your soul. (Laughs)

Mary: No. I just think it seems very beautiful and crucial to recognise, that by the time we get to feeling the causal emotion, there is very little resistance to truth within us in that place, from what you are saying.

No, only towards that emotion. This is what we must understand, that it’s not towards every emotion, it’s only towards that emotion that there’s much less resistance to our feeling. That’s only one emotion so …

Mary: … on a certain issue, when we get rid of a lot of the anger, fear, judgement, shame …

… blockages, society beliefs, all these kinds of …

Mary: … false beliefs, all of those things create the resistance that we have to truth, around this one subject. We’re just talking about one subject.

One subject. It may be, “Mummy treated me badly.”

Mary: Or “Women are never going to love me.”

Yes, whatever that one subject is.

Mary: Whatever that one subject is. I just thought it was very interesting that you said, “Once you deal with all of that and you actually get to some causal grief, this resistance that we talked about, that prevents the flow of truth into your soul, once you’re actually feeling that you are through it.”

Pretty much, yes. This is what allows God’s Love to operate upon the soul as well, in that place. Now that you are open to feeling the actual causal feeling that causes you to retain this belief, you’re feeling it and experiencing it. Since you are feeling and experiencing it, it’s leaving you. At the time it’s leaving you, truth can enter you at the same time now. It’s like pouring water out of bowl. You can now fill it up again.

If you imagine a bowl turned upside down, like a bottle turned upside down with a lid on the end and open at the top, you try pouring water in the top and it’s already filled, all the water goes everywhere and none goes in the bottle. Obviously, if you were talking about it scientifically, it’s a bit different. I’m talking about it just as a general analogy. Open the bottle at the bottom and all that other water goes out. Now when you pour water in the top, water can go in. The soul is very similar to that. The water can go in; truth can go in while you’re letting error out.

Mary: I suppose that’s what I was trying to get to. In the preamble to this discussion, we talked about the emotional impediment as error, that prevents the absorption of truth. The magic of what you’re saying is, when we are in a state of surrender to that causal emotion, that emotional impediment is …

… is being released now. It’s being released. It hasn’t been completely released but it’s being released. Through the process of being released, new truth can enter, gradually of course, as the emotion is released. If you choose to hold that process up because something challenges you, and you don’t let yourself be overwhelmed anymore, then you only released a certain amount, and the truth will only enter that amount.

Now there is still some kind of resistance that caused you to stop that process, and you need to find it and let it flow again. Truth will enter to the extent that you let the error leave. It’s just a simple equation; one is going to have to make way for the other. Quite simple, so if we let a little bit of it go, a little bit of it can enter.

This is how most for us process emotion. We let a little bit of error go, a little bit of truth enters, a little bit more error goes, a little bit of truth enters. The reality is, we could allow that process more but only if we allow surrender and being overwhelmed, and for most people they don’t allow it. They allow a dribble here, a dribble there, and try emptying a bottle with a dribble; it’s going to take days. (Laughter) If you empty a bottle with a whoosh it’ll take hours or minutes, and this is how our soul works too. There are many emotions in us we could solve within hours. We don’t allow that process to fully complete. We stop it because of some fear or some other false belief, and as a result it takes days, months or even years to make the transition.

Mary: And while we’re resisting, we’re actually attempting to limit … while we’re resisting truth, while we’re holding onto error, the error within us is resisting the truth, then we’re just limiting our own growth, aren’t we?

Well this is the sad thing isn’t it. You’re there holding onto resistance, saying, “I want to hold onto resistance, I need to rebel against the whole process, I don’t want to change,” and all you are really doing is limiting your own growth, which would result in your own happiness. You’re limiting so many things. Why would you logically take a step that causes you to limit your own happiness? It doesn’t make much sense.

This is the sad thing about pain that we don’t understand. While we retain the pain within, we are limiting the pleasure that we can experience. It doesn’t make much sense to do that. See, this is where logic can be used to get into the reasons why we resist, rather than just allowing resistance to remain for the rest of our life. We need to challenge our stagnation, and one way of challenging our stagnation is to at least reason with ourselves logically about what stagnation is achieving. The reality for most of us is, stagnation achieves your not having to feel pain.

Mary: Yes, but in the long term …

In the long term it creates huge amounts of pain, so you could actually say, stagnation achieves a fixed amount of pain that gradually grows, and the majority of us prefer that to being overwhelmed by pain for a short period of time.

Mary: … that then decreases.

And that’s pretty sad …

Mary: It is, isn’t it?

… that we actually prefer that, so there is a lot in resistance. Of course, we could talk for hours about what emotions cause resistance, what kinds of emotions of resistance there are. When we answer people’s questions about emotional processing, emotional growth, we’ll probably start addressing some of these issues in more clarity.

I think later on in the week we are doing a session on questions about emotions, and they’ll all be referencing The Human Soul FAQ, because in the end they’ll all revert back in some way to what’s going on with one of these principles of How the Soul Functions.

Mary: I am looking forward to that. Thanks for that discussion babe, and thanks for your passion and enthusiasm on the topic.

I love how the soul functions. To me, learning about how the soul functions has helped me immensely in my own life, and I feel that if everyone on Earth knew how the soul functions we would drop … honestly, entire economies of nations would change into focusing on growth rather than focusing on suppression, and dealing with the effects of resisting change in the soul. I feel that understanding this material has a powerful effect on the individual, but also potentially a powerful effect on humanity collectively.

Mary: Thank you.

2. The principle of “Presence”

Mary: We’re continuing our discussion of “How the Human Soul Functions”. I ‘m here with Jesus, and we’re up to the principle of presence, so Jesus, can you tell us what the principle of presence is all about?

Well I thought I’d just read my notes first for everyone, then we’ll go through the notes perhaps one by one again.

We’re wearing different colours because it’s actually a different day. (Laughter) We spoke too much yesterday, so obviously that’s why we’re wearing different colours today. It’s not like we had a half-change through the day.

Presence is the principle that for truth to be present and absorbed by the soul, love must also be present. It’s really talking about the presence of love, and a person who has truth in themselves, who honours the loving principle of the soul’s free will, and who wishes to share some truth, under all circumstances this person:

A. Would be able to tell you the truth about yourself, if they have learnt the same truth about themselves, and this truth is present within their soul. In other words, quite often I see people trying to share a truth with somebody, but they haven’t even learnt that truth themselves, which means they have no idea what they are talking about actually.

B. Will be able to logically describe the truth and define how it is the truth. In other words, they’ll have a deep soul-based understanding, which will trigger their intellectual logic, and they’ll be able to describe to you logically why the thing they are sharing with you is the truth.

C. They will be able to tell you why the condition of error exists within you. In other words, if they are really developed in love, they will be able to feel what’s gone on in your life. They will be able to feel what the source of your issues or problems are, and what they’ll be able to do then, is tell you what was the underlying cause. They’d want to do that, they’d want to share that with you because they love you. It wouldn’t be an attack of you, it would be a sharing of what they know about you, based on what they can feel from you, that you might not even be able to feel from yourself.

D. Will be able to show you how to remove this condition of error. In other words, they’ll be able to say to you, “This is what you need to do if you’re going to actually address this particular problem.” In other words, they’ll want to help you address the problem. They won’t just attack you with the fact that you’ve got one, and then leave you high and dry and feeling terrible about yourself without showing you what the potential solution is, of this particular problem.

E. Will want to do all of the above while honouring your free will. In other words, if you said, “I don’t want to hear anymore,” then they would stop. They wouldn’t keep going or keep attacking, or keep being bombastic or pushy with the information; they would honour your free will instantly.

Mary: The other way I see that we can often tell that a person doesn’t have the presence of love while they’re speaking, and therefore doesn’t have that truth within them, is that often they’re trying to manipulate the person’s will into stopping what they’re doing. So they’re … “I’m telling you this so you stop that.”

Correct, and that is out of harmony with love straight away. And then the last point is:

F: Love, compassion and understanding will be present and within their own soul while performing all of the above actions.

In other words, they’ll have love for you, compassion for you and they’ll understand most, if not all, of what’s going on for you during this process of the sharing of the truth.

Now this is an indication that that person is, firstly, quite well developed in love, but secondly, also interested in loving you while they share the truth with you. The majority of people are not like this of course. For most people when they share “truth” with other people, it is very personally motivated. In other words, they’re personally selfishly motivated; they’re doing it for the reason of trying to stop something from happening in you that affects their life, rather than doing it to help you because you want help. Most people are not in the state of doing those things.

Mary: Yes. It’s also true that we might speak the truth just because we love the truth, and to honour the truth in that situation, isn’t it? It may not be specifically, “I’m telling you this and now I’m going to help you through this whole big thing,” but if the truth resides within me, I will be able to speak it with love and be able to help that person, if they are sincere about wanting help.

There are times when the person is in a situation when no one in the room wants any truth, but in order to honour the truth themselves they must speak it, but they wouldn’t be speaking it in terms of trying to change anybody, or trying to manipulate anybody, or trying to make anybody feel bad about themselves, or trying to judge anybody for any other purpose. They would be doing it only because they must stay in a condition of truth in that particular place.

Also, it’s only when something becomes very, very unloving that you would consider doing that. In other words, if everybody in the location was quite unloving to each other, and there were a lot of other things going on but they all wanted those interactions, and you were in the situation but you were in a state of truth, there is a high likelihood that you would just sit in the situation and observe what’s going on. You wouldn’t say anything, because nobody there wants to know anything from you, and they all want to remain in the condition that they’re currently in, and there is no effect on you unless they personally interact with you.

If they personally interact with you, now it may be a different type of interaction, where you say, “Well I can’t agree with that. I’m happy to sit here and listen to everybody, but I can’t agree with that because of these reasons … “ That might come out, but that would probably only be needed if you were asked.

If everyone started to attack you in that situation, then obviously the person who is in harmony with love and truth would say, “All of you guys are getting out of hand now. You’re now attacking me for my situation. I haven’t been attacking you even though I disagree with you. This indicates to me that you’re not very loving. I don’t really have any need to listen to you, and the reality is, I think it’s time for me to leave rather than put up with this kind of stuff from you.”

Again, you wouldn’t be angry or demanding or expecting that they change, or any of these other things. You would have compassion for the fact that they wish to remain in that particular condition, and you wouldn’t feel better than them or any of those things. You would just say, “No, I can’t do this here in this situation, because while you’re attacking me you’re not being very nice to me, and that’s something that I can’t allow.” You would then probably leave the situation.

A person in truth is often very, very connected with themselves. They are not angry with everybody all the time, and not bitter with everyone all the time. It’s very rare for them … once you’re at-one with God you never get involved in bitter conversations or accusations, because there is no need to. If a person’s that resistive to truth, then obviously there’s no need for you to be involved with it, and under those circumstances you would be completely quiet, which is like the kind of situations surrounding my death in the first century. That was the reason why I was completely quiet, because in that situation nobody wanted to hear the truth. Nobody wanted to listen to what I had to say, nobody cared that I was there by their force. There was nothing I could do about that unless I resorted to violence, and so the only option I had was to not speak, and so I didn’t.

Sometimes a person who’s living in harmony with truth won’t speak, no matter what the provocation.

Mary: To summarise what you’ve just spoken about there, you’re really saying that when a truth has been absorbed into us …

Yes, that’s what we’re talking about. If it’s inside of our soul, yes.

Mary: … then, whenever we are in any situation, love with regard to that truth will guide us. We’ll have a loving attitude towards that truth, so we won’t be forcing it and we won’t be angry about it.

Won’t be angry about the truth itself, or the fact that other people are in error about that truth.

Mary: We won’t try to force it upon others, but when we do present that truth there will always be love within us, and we will be clear and calm, and we’ll be able to have a logical expression and discussion of it, should that be welcomed.

We would have compassion, on top of that, for the people who are listening, and their condition, and the fact that they might not understand what we’re talking about. Sometimes we’d have quite long discussions with them trying to explain, and the only time we would leave those discussions probably, or ask them to leave if we had control of the room or the house or whatever it was, would be if they’ve become unloving in their actions towards us. Then of course we would go, “Now things are out of harmony with love so I can’t be here.” But even that wouldn’t be an angry reaction. Once we are at-one with God it won’t be.

Let’s contrast that with a person who doesn’t have presence, if you like, or doesn’t understand presence. A person who does not have truth in themselves, who does not honour the loving principle of the soul’s free will, and who wishes to share some “truth” under any circumstance, will generally attempt to attack or denigrate you with their truth. That’s very different; that’s now an unloving act. They might know something about you, they might even know something that you’re trying to keep secret or whatever, or that you feel ashamed of, and they purposefully raise that particular thing in order for you to feel worse. That’s their purpose; that’s their underlying goal. Their underlying goal is to make you feel worse about yourself.

That’s an indication of a person who has no love in them at all, and who doesn’t understand this principle of presence. They will attempt to belittle or humiliate you with their truth. They will have no logical idea or concept as to why their truth is what they believe is the truth. They will not be able to tell you why the condition of error exists within you because they have no idea, and most probably a worse condition exists in themselves. They will not be able, or want, to show you how to remove the condition of error, because basically they don’t care about the fact that it exists. They just want to highlight it in order to attack you. They don’t care that you have the condition, and they also don’t care about helping you remove it. They have no intention, in fact, of helping you remove it. They’d like it to be worse, which is what they are trying to create or achieve. They’re trying to make you feel worse, and therefore have the condition worsen.

You see this kind of attitude a lot with media interviews. They’re constantly baiting people so that they get the reaction in the other person. That’s an indication of a person who doesn’t want the truth. A media person who wants the truth won’t bait people. They will see the resistance and maybe point it out, but they won’t bait them, and try to trigger them into rage or anger or some other emotion. They would allow the person to say, “Oh, I don’t want to answer that.” They’d say, “Okay,” and go onto the next question, and just let that comment that the person doesn’t want to engage speak for itself. The reality is that there are not many media people like that, who do that.

The person in error will not honour your free will to accept or reject the truth given. In other words, they won’t honour your free will, oftentimes even to speak. If they do allow you to speak, they will not honour your free will to say, “No, I don’t agree,” or to be in disharmony with what they believe. That’s part of the problem, and they will not be able to do any of the above with compassion, love and understanding because, love, compassion and understanding are not present within their soul.

When we examine this aspect of presence, it’s really about the presence of love. A person cannot be the presence of love unless love exists within them to some degree, and this is why most people have trouble with this particular aspect of the soul. They often have no presence of love within them, even if they’re seeking for truth. Many times there is not much of a presence of love inside of them, and so they become very angry, demanding, have hard expectations, and as a result no truth can really enter them. Nor can any truth be discussed without there being some discussion about the emotional condition that prevents the truth from entering them.

Mary: Let’s talk about this then, because now we’re starting to talk about something else. Really, you’re saying that if a truth exists within our soul, love will be present with that truth, in relation to that truth.

If it’s truly in our soul, if it’s not just an intellectual idea. This is what the problem is for many. It’s just an intellectual idea, and it’s not entered their soul yet, so it’s not something their soul really feels. It’s something that they think is a good concept, that they have honoured, through their intellect. Because it’s not in their soul, because it’s not something that’s inside of them, what they do is, they have a tendency to relate a whole heap of information, a whole heap of what they believe is true, but there is no love in them at all, to allow for that truth to be discussed with them themselves. They themselves are not going to be able to receive what is being said.

We’ve had many examples of this. If people look at some of the media interviews we’ve had, you will see many examples of this. There was one young man who came to interview us at our home. and he eventually walked off the interview. The main reason why he did was that there was no presence in him, no presence of love in him. He had no desire to find out the truth at all. It was all about other addictive emotions that he was trying to satisfy, and as a result it was impossible to share any truth with him, whether it was personal or … you could see, even if it was not personal, he was there thinking about other things. He wasn’t even listening to the conversation; there was nothing going into him. A conversation like that is pointless. Then of course, when it became personal, now he became defensive, angry and resistive and all those kinds of things, and started a personal attack of myself, and so forth. That’s another indication there is no desire in the man for any presence; there is no desire to love in the process.

Mary: This is where you’ve been talking a lot about relating the truth, and how when we relate to truth, love is present if it’s within our soul. Now you’re beginning to speak about how receiving the truth, and how the presence or the lack of presence of love affects our receipt of truth. You’re saying, unless there is a presence of love within us …

… or at least a desire to love within us.

Mary: Yes, so let’s talk about what needs to be present in order for us to receive truth.

Well, it’s love that needs to be present in order for us to receive truth. I think we’ve made that clear, but I feel there are aspects of love, and that’s what you’re really asking.

Some of the aspects of love are being open to a new concept; that’s an aspect of love. Being open to the fact that there might be an emotional issue is an aspect of love. Being open to the fact that you may have resistance to the discussion of certain information is an aspect of love.

If you’re not open to such things, then there is no aspect of love in you, or desire to love. As a result, it is impossible to really share truth with a person who’s like that. The only circumstance where you would is if they were in your company. Then you would, or if they were at your home, which in the case of this man he was. He was at my home. If it was at his home, I would have done something completely different.

They are probably the only times that you would engage it, if you had control of the situation from an environmental perspective. The other times you’d probably just be quiet, because you know that anything you say is not wanted anyway, and so you probably wouldn’t engage. The only thing they’d probably question after you left would be, “Well, that man was a pretty quiet man; didn’t get to know him very well (Laughter)

Mary: I’ve been with you in social situations, where people have said that to me afterwards. “Gee whiz, he doesn’t talk much,” and of course I know that you are very sensitive to the will of everyone around you. If they don’t want to hear from you, you don’t talk to them. I often think it’s funny that people have a perception that you’re going to be a certain way in a social situation.

When we share publicly we’re making the presumption, and it’s a valid presumption, that people who come to listen to us speak want to learn about love. When we go to a social situation I never make that presumption. I’m always going, “Well, what’s happening here? What are the feelings coming from them?” If the feelings coming from them are that they don’t want to hear from me at all, then I don’t say anything. Sometimes we have whole evenings where I say nothing. They ask you whole heaps of questions because they’re interested in you, but they are not interested in me, so I don’t say anything. Then they go away saying, “He was pretty quiet. I wonder what was going on with him,” and I say, “Well, they could have asked me that, and I could have told them, but they didn’t even want to know that.” (Laughter) A person who is present with love would automatically be sensitive to those things.

Mary: This aspect of presence and truth, and the relationship between the presence of love and the presence of truth, that if love is not present, it’s impossible to reflect truth really, if you’re going to honour …

Yes. Really, all you’re doing there, is reflecting an intellectual concept from a memory-based idea that you’ve heard from somebody that you liked. You’re not actually reflecting it from what your true condition is. It’s not something that you actually know. It’s not something that you actually practise, and it’s almost hypocritical, because really it’s just an intellectual concept you’re sharing from yourself to another person, that you yourself don’t yet have a soul perspective of; you haven’t yet absorbed it into your soul.

You’re sort of sharing something that you just think is a great idea, and then getting upset about it when somebody doesn’t accept it, which is actually the true condition of your soul, because when you get upset about it when someone doesn’t accept it, you’re proving that the true condition of your soul is much darker than what you even thought it was before you started sharing it.

I feel a lot of people don’t understand this principle of love-based interactions. When you’re present in love, and this is the aspect of the soul, the love has to be in your soul to be present in love, it can’t be just an intellectual concept, it has to be something that is actually driven by a real feeling inside of your soul, because if not you’re going to slip up. Sooner or later they are going to say something that gets you hot under the collar, and you’ll say something back and “Bang,” you’re out of the intellectual facade, and you’re into the real condition of your soul. When you are actually feeling true presence, and you’re feeling the feeling of love inside of you, you don’t do that.

Mary: I just want to talk to you about your saying, “When we are present in love; when we have true presence.” I get a bit thingy about that, because there’s a lot of what I would call New Age philosophies, that talk about presence and being a presence of love.

Yes, and I am not talking about any of those airy-fairy concepts or ideas here. (Laughter)

Mary: You’re really just talking about when love is present within us. Is that what you are saying?

Correct. Love has to exist within your soul. It has to be inside of you. When love is inside of you, now you can be loving with other people. You can’t manufacture an idea or concept of love and be loving to someone if love doesn’t exist inside of you.

Now, usually everybody has a degree of love inside of them to some extent. When I say, “a degree of love,” there are certain circumstances and situations where there is no resistance to love, and there has been some absorption of truth, where they are quite relaxed and able to show or demonstrate some kind or love to another.

For example, the average guy in Australia who drinks a bit, when he gets together with his mates, they all get together and have a bit of a drink, generally many of them are quite loving to each other at that point, sometimes even more loving than they would have been before they had the drink, because the drink has sort of loosened up their emotions a little. Now they start to display some of their true feelings for each other, which is sometimes quite loving and matey, and that’s why a lot of them love to get together and have a drink, because that’s when they feel some flow of love between each other.

Of course it requires an addiction before it happens, but as soon as one of them starts saying something the other one doesn’t agree with, because they’re lubricated, if you like, by the alcohol, now they quickly go from a bit of presence of love to no presence of love at all. Now they’re angry with each other, and almost fight and sometimes they hurt each other. That’s why it switches so rapidly – because on one subject you can be present in love or have some love present, but on another subject you can have none whatsoever. As soon as that particular subject is triggered, you’re not loving at all.

A person who has grown in love, is present with love on more and more subjects, until eventually, when you become at-one with God you are present with love on all subjects. There is not a single subject that a person can raise with you that upsets you, that makes you feel stressed out, that makes you get angry, that makes you feel afraid, any of those things. That’s what happens when you become at-one with God. Up until that time you are a person in progression. You are progressing with your soul; you’re learning how to become like that, but it’s only when love is inside of you that you’re actually like that on any given subject.

Mary: A lot of the other principles we’ve been discussing in this series, have been all about how to get love into your soul on certain issues, hasn’t it? These issues of absorption and resistance, all of those principles affect how we can actually become more present in love.

Yes. In the example that I gave – maybe if we can give an example – if the two guys getting together to have a drink, feel real matey with each other, feel a fair bit of love flowing between them, they really like each other’s company, and then all of a sudden some subject is brought up that one of them doesn’t like, he gets all upset and angry and starts taking his anger and rage out on the other, well that’s an indication that that particular subject for that man, he has a lot of resistance on. There is no soul absorption at all that has occurred on that subject with truth, and obviously he has a lot of preclusive emotion that precludes any soul absorption of truth on that subject. His true state on that subject will dominate him, and because of his alcohol base there’s less facade. Now the true subject dominates him without facade, and so he is now engaged in an angry exchange. That is an indication that the truth does not exist in his soul on that subject. Even if he had had a drink, if the truth existed in his soul on the subject he wouldn’t have got angry on that subject, no matter how challenging the subject is.

Mary: So basically my understanding is that, when the truth is received into the soul, not just the intellect, then love is also present or will come from us when we present this truth. That’s the first thing we’ve established.

Well, can I also discuss another relationship there perhaps? – because it’s very important for people to understand some relationship between truth and love.

Remember that truth opens your heart to love. Remember, humility opens your heart to truth, and truth opens your heart to love, so if you have absorbed a truth inside of your soul, it’s highly likely, if it’s really there, that you’ve also allowed some love to flow into you about that subject, because of the way truth is the doorway to love.

It means, if you’ve allowed some truth on a given subject to flow into your soul, then it’s highly likely you’ll feel some love on that particular subject inside of your soul as well. This is why the two often go hand-in-hand if they are in your soul. If there is a separation of love and truth in you, and you’re just reaming off intellectual ideas, and it’s obvious there’s no love in your soul about that subject, then it means that you probably haven’t absorbed the truth in your soul about that subject. Also, no love has been able to flow into your soul about that subject, and then the best course of action to take would be to find the emotional resistance that exists within your soul about that subject, and work through the emotional reasons, or the emotional feelings, that caused you to preclude these emotions in your day-to-day life.

Mary: You’re also saying there though, even when a certain truth may not be within our soul on a certain subject, if love is present in other ways, through our desire to grow, or through our desire to even receive truth that we haven’t previously got, that almost creates a loving condition for the truth then to enter us, and without that the truth is just going to be an intellectual discussion.

Really, all we’re doing, without the love being present in the soul, and without truth being present in the soul, all we’re really doing is just reaming off memory-based intellectual thoughts. In other words, there are things that have entered our mind, that we remember, and that maybe even from our mind’s perspective we like the concept of, but as yet we don’t personally practise them in our heart, in our soul. We are totally de-tuned from them in fact, and in fact sometimes, because we love facades on earth, there is a tendency to actually like that condition, where the soul is in a completely different state than the intellect would tend to indicate, even to ourselves.

We need to understand the difference between those two states before we make any progress. While the soul is in a state of the resistance to the truth, and while it’s in a state where it precludes the absorption of new truths and love, then it doesn’t matter how much we talk about love, and it doesn’t matter how much we think about love, and it doesn’t matter how much we read about it, it doesn’t matter how much we so-called share our life with others, there’s not going to be any love coming from our soul, and until we remove the resistance that will be the case. If we don’t remove it for a hundred years, that will be the case for a hundred years.

Mary: Sometimes I have this little joke with you, about people viewing you as a google machine, because sometimes we get into situations where people are continually asking you questions.

Question after question after question.

Mary: About the universe, about God, about the spirit world, about even personal progression, but there isn’t the presence of a desire to really receive the answers in an emotional way.

Yes. It’s quite funny sometimes, because you know the feeling is quite strong; you can feel it quite strongly after a while. You can feel that that person has no desire to hear the answer. There is no love in them asking the question, and there’s no desire for them to have a personal change from getting the response to the question. They’re just asking the question, and the only reason why I generally answer those questions in a group environment, is that I can feel other people in the audience do have a feeling that they would want to know the answer to the question, and they want to address the issue somehow emotionally, and then I’ll share.

If I feel that no one in the group, or very few people in the group, are wanting to hear the answer to that question, then I will focus the person who has asked the question, on their emotional condition, what’s going on for them, as to why they keep barraging me with questions, treating me like I am a machine, while at the same time not wanting to know, or feel, about any of the answers I give them.

Mary: Yes, it can almost be a sort of addiction, can’t it? – to just engage the intellect around our progress, to help avoid where we are really at. I know that one.

Yes. I find a lot of people who ask questions are asking questions in their addiction, whether it be in their fear, in their shame. Now in some cases I will answer those questions, because I feel like there is an issue here for them that they need to address. If they can raise it and I can address it, that’s being kind to them. It’s also sometimes driven by some spirits that want to know the answer to such questions, so I feel now I’ve got a valid reason for answering this question, but when I feel that it’s just a barrage of questions, for the sake of getting information to allay certain addictions that they have, or to meet certain addictions that they have, then I feel like, “No, now we’ve got to focus on the addiction,” because unless I focus on the addiction, the aspect of preclusion means that they will not absorb anything I am saying to them. It’s like talking to a brick wall. From my perspective that’s what it actually feels like; it actually feels like you’re beating your head against a brick wall (laughter), with no result. That’s what it’s like, talking to some people, when it comes to giving them an answer to the questions they ask.

Mary: Alright, so if we discuss this principle from another angle now, in the way that we might begin to analyse what’s being presented to us? Given what you’ve said, if we are hearing something from someone and love is not present, then how do we deal with that situation?

Well, if we’re hearing information from people where love is not present, they obviously have a motivation inside of them to bring up this information in order to attack us in some way, or to humiliate us in some way, or to denigrate us in some way, or some other reason, or they could be bringing up the information to meet one of their own addictions, which is actually a selfish act.

Firstly, we would need to look at two things. One thing is: we need to look at why we receive such comments and criticisms. You see, there is obviously an aspect of love of ourselves, that allows us to absorb error-based emotions from other people, and remember, if there is an error inside of us that precludes the truth from entering, or there’s no truth inside of us that exists to preclude an error from entering, then these errors, where other people treat us badly and we accept them treating us badly, will enter us.

It’s very important for us in those interactions to understand, that obviously if I am accepting something that’s not given to me in love, and it’s not given to me with a desire to improve, and it’s not explanatory, and it’s not all of those things we listed in the first section about presence, then we can say to ourselves, “Well, obviously there’s something else going on here, and I am just allowing some abuse now.”

And it doesn’t matter what the person is saying, or what they think they are saying; it doesn’t matter what they are saying. If I am allowing abuse, then obviously there is a point of learning here for me, about why I allow an error-based unloving feeling to enter me all the time, and why I allow myself to be in a situation all the time where I am getting attacked.

Now there are some times, when you think about those issues, where there might be a reason, and that is to demonstrate love to other people who are there, or other people who are watching, but they are about the only reasons why you would stay, and even then you’ve got to be careful that you’re not sacrificing yourself just for the sake of other people learning something.

We’d have to analyse why we’re sitting there allowing this barrage, and what’s actually going on, because most of the time when we’re in a situation where love is not present, and we’re allowing a barrage of information to come to us, it’s usually because the person who is doing the barraging, is emotionally manipulating us in some way, or attempting to. They are trying to elicit a response in us that they feel they wish to elicit; in other words, they are trying to drive us to a certain point, whether that be to a point of agreement or whether it be to a point of anger, or rage, or some other emotion that’s unloving.

Even agreeing with them under those circumstances would be unloving. This is where we have to be very careful that we are not being emotionally manipulated by a person who’s unloving, who quotes some intellectual idea or concept that is truthful to us, and uses that as an excuse to be unloving towards us.

If I can give an example: I had one media representative say to me that he could abuse me as much as he liked, because if I was Jesus I would forgive him. Now that’s an example of a person who is emotionally manipulative, who does not understand the principle of forgiveness in their own soul, and who has no desire to love at all. He is willing to attack another person, and then use a “truth” that he has heard intellectually against that person, to cause them to accept some attack.

Now that’s highly manipulative, and it’s totally out of line with any truth. Any question that the person asks, under those circumstances, he is never going to hear the answer to, so it is pointless having a discussion with such a person.

Mary: Yes, and I suppose there are a lot of examples I could bring up in this area, where I see people excusing abuse really, using Divine Truth terminology, if I can call it that. I know neither of us like to have a lot of terminology but it does happen. For example, I have heard people excuse their treatment of other people, saying, “Well you attracted it; it’s your Law of Attraction.”

There is an example of a person with no presence, no love; no love is present there. They are basically blaming the other person for their abuse of the other person. That’s a very unloving thing to do. You know, basically a paedophile does that; they blame the child for the sexual abuse of the child, so you’re not far removed from a paedophile when you start doing things like that, to be honest, in your soul condition. It’s a very damaging thing to your soul, to start using the excuse that because the other person attracted it, you can go ahead and do it.

Mary: Or that you don’t need to look at what you did. And it indicates that there is no love present, around even the understanding of the Law of Attraction.

Correct. Yes, there is no understanding at all of the Law in their soul. They might have heard a few concepts, and now they are distorting the truth of those concepts in order to manipulate another person to absorb their abuse, and that’s a highly unloving act. In fact, anybody who engages in those acts has no understanding of Divine Truth within their soul at all, because if they did, if they had received some of God’s Love, they would never be able to do it. They’d never be able to do such a thing.

Mary: There are other areas where I see people … I suppose when we have a lot of error inside of us and addictions, it’s easy to allow ourselves to get away with manipulating the things that you say. I was thinking as you were speaking, about an example of someone that I heard from, who’d been in a workshop in their workplace where some principles about, we might call them Natural Love teachings – I don’t like using that terminology either – were being presented in a workshop format. That person was obligated to be there for their work. They felt that there was no love present, so they were obligated to speak the truth, and they felt this person who was presenting it was being quite unloving.

Obviously I took issue with that, because that person was not in control of that environment. The person was doing their job and not forcing this material on the people. They were presenting what they were being asked to present, and the person in the audience was actually using the excuse of needing to stand up for truth, when they in fact were being quite attacking and belligerent, and taking away from the flow of this person, who was simply just trying to do their job.

In other words, the person claiming to be the person who had love, was actually one of the most unloving people in the room, by standing up and interrupting the flow of the entire discussion, and then getting angry with that fact, and then potentially, I don’t know whether he walked out or not, but I suspect that he may have.

Mary: No I don’t think he did; he stayed along until the end.

Stayed and annoyed them until the end, which is one of the worst things you could ever do. If you felt that annoyed you should leave, and so then everyone could be relieved of your presence. That indicates how strongly there is no love inside of that person, even though they think there is.

Mary: I suppose that’s the thing, that basically, from what you’re saying, I feel that you’re saying that, if love is present when someone is presenting a truth, then we can trust that a lot, but it depends a lot upon our understanding, or our understanding of what love is, because a lot of people will …

And this is what the problem is, because if love is not present in your soul, you don’t understand what love is, even if you think you do. This is the state that most people are in on the planet. They think they know what love is, when it’s just full of addictive co-dependence, and they have no understanding of what love is. Under the circumstances where we’re sitting in an environment where we don’t have to participate if we don’t want to, where we don’t even have to be there if we don’t want to, we’re not forced to be there, someone isn’t jailing us to be there, and are just speaking about things we just disagree with, then why would you choose to?

Mary: Why would you feel that truth compels you to interrupt?

Yes. Truth only compels you if you are in a situation where you had to speak up as a result of someone attacking you personally. Under those circumstances you’re not getting attacked personally, you’re just sitting there in an audience; you don’t have to participate very much.

If someone asks you to participate, you say, “Well I don’t know if I can, because I don’t know if I agree with everything that’s being said.” Then if they say, “What don’t you agree with?” you have an opening and an opportunity to share what you don’t agree with, what you disagree with, but you don’t have to then get all upset about it, or abusive about it, and attack the person, and constantly berate them and pull them down for the entire period, which is what I understand is what this person had a tendency to do.

When you do things like that, you are demonstrating that even though you have heard the principles of Divine Truth, you know nothing about them. You just think you know, and you’re just parroting off memories that you’ve had of hearing it. No love has entered your soul, and no truth has entered your soul actually, and if a person’s in that condition I would advise them to take a much stronger look, an honest look at the true condition of their soul, and a much stronger look at all of the resistances they have towards love.

Mary: Hmmm, and I suppose I find it really sad to talk about all these negative things, because it’s such a beautiful principle …

It’s a wonderful principle.

Mary: And yet it seems like there’s an abuse of the ideas of love and truth a lot.

I feel that maybe most people on earth don’t have a feeling they … I suppose you could say there are three classes of people generally. There’s the class of people who desire to love; they want to learn and they are quite open and humble. Then there is the class of people who think they want to love but they’re not humble, and they have no desire to learn but they think they do. These are people who are often in a lot of facade, and we meet a lot of those kinds of people in our seminars. And then there’s the kind of people who know they don’t want to love. They just want to be angry and attacking. They want to abuse other people and they want to attack other people; they want to make fun of other people, and they know they do.

In some ways I find them more honest than the middle group, because at least with those people you know where you stand when you’re having a conversation. Of course, a person who’s in harmony with love, who has presence in their soul with truth, they can tell the different types of people quite readily or easily. The problem is talking to those kinds of people under those circumstances. The person who knows they want to attack you, it’s pretty obvious they want to attack you. A person who wants to have the facade of being nice while they’re attacking you, that kind of person is self-delusional and often very, very difficult to talk with, having no presence of love or truth in their soul yet, but they think they do, and this is a very dangerous state. There are many people who have stayed in this state for many hundreds of years, because they think they are wise and loving and truthful and loving, when the reality is that it’s all just a facade, and their true condition is very, very different.

Mary: Yes, I believe that they’re in the worst situation when it comes to growth. When we’re addicted to facade …

They are the most prone to stagnation.

Mary: Yes, when we are addicted to facade, then we’re further away from progress than the person who just says, “No, I am angry and I’m not hiding it.”

And also, “I want to attack you and I want to abuse you.” Oftentimes the person who says, “I am angry, I want to attack you, I want to abuse you,” they have, in history … and we’ve met many of them in the spirit world, where they’ve gone through some kind of change for some reason. They wanted to love for one reason, and all of a sudden they realise their condition, and they’re just as passionate desiring love as they were desiring to hate you. (Laughter) They say they switch from hating your guts to wanting to love you, without going through the middle road of being in a facade, and making out they love you when they don’t.

Oftentimes it is the people who make out things, who are facade and who are trying to maintain and perpetrate their facade, they are the people who have the most stagnation issues, because they are often in a state where they have even fooled themselves about what their true condition is. They are the people that are the most difficult to deal with actually, because you can’t convince them that they are in the condition that they are actually in, and you’ve got to wait until they go through some kind of self-analysis and self-assessment, which they are not prone to do, because they already believe they are in the right condition. Therefore they feel they don’t need to do it.

Probably a fair majority of the people listening to Divine Truth at the moment are in that class, where they’re not honest about their true state or condition. They are in this state where they believe they would know everything, they believe they get it and they believe they’re being loving. They believe all these things about themselves, completely unwilling to look at their facade, and yet they are some of the most difficult people that there are to handle, and difficult people to interact with.

The people we really love interacting with, of course, are the people who are open, honest, truthful about all of their condition, while at the same time they have some presence of love and some desire to love at least, because you can have a desire to love without having yet a presence of love, and even that is a better condition than a person who believes themselves to already be loving.

It’s interesting and, historically if you look at the spirit world, sometimes it’s been those ones who are hateful and attacking, some who even caused my death who were hateful and attacking, became just as passionate supporters later as they were passionate defenders of their own falsehoods before that time. They were so passionately defending their own falsehood before that time, they were willing to kill me. Then, after they realised their error and went through a state of repentance, they became passionate supporters. (Laughter) They didn’t go through this middle road of … they acknowledged their error, they acknowledged what they did, they acknowledged their true condition and then made changes. Even Cornelius was one of those persons who made those kinds of switches and changes. He wasn’t a facade person at all (laughter); he was a good example of a person like that.

Mary: It seems to be that the injuries that create us having an investment in our facade, either towards ourselves or towards others or both, are some of the most damaging to us really engaging with how the human soul functions, because we do require that honesty, don’t we, with ourselves and with others, in order to get the process going.

Always, and of course what we’re trying to achieve here in this discussion about how the human soul functions, is we’re trying to help you, the listener, to actually see how your own soul has been created and functions, and also help you have a bit better self-assessment of your own soul, what is stopping it from growth, and what is stopping it from progression. That’s our goal in all these conversations.

Mary: Okay, so if you’re happy I will just run through some of the notes we have made prior, just to make sure we have covered everything, because as I said, sometimes I feel like we get negative in talking about this stuff, when actually, when you’re with someone who has the presence of love when they deliver truth, that’s pretty awesome.

Yes, and it’s very rare. A person who has the presence of love and is delivering a truth, it’s a beautiful gift to be there. Honestly, it’s a beautiful gift, because it is a rare thing. Also, they have a pure desire without any facade to assist you, to help you grow, to help you change, to help you to get rid of what your resistance is emotionally. Why wouldn’t you honour what they’re saying under those circumstances?

Mary: Yes. I suppose I’m one of the very, very fortunate people on the planet at the moment, to receive a lot of truth in the presence of love. I do feel that and I feel the power of that. I feel how much easier it is actually to receive truth when love is coming with it. It inspires me a lot to be able to offer that gift to other people, because it really is life-changing. Yes, I feel very passionately about that.

When I receive a truth and love is not present, then I need to analyse it on its merits of course, because I wouldn’t be humble if I didn’t. If someone gives me feedback or presents something to me, and I can feel there’s not love there, I don’t dismiss it out of hand, but when love is present that is … it’s just very beautiful.

Obviously for myself, it’s rare for me, for others to present to me any truth without there being a large degree of unloving behaviour associated with it, unfortunately. Obviously I allow myself to feel about those kinds of feelings rather than attacking the person in return. I need to work through issues of self-love that I obviously have yet to work through, with those particular things.

We have to be careful here with one particular aspect of this though. We find a lot of people believe they are speaking with celestial spirits, because they are so “loving,” when the reality is, they are speaking with spirits from the first sphere who are manipulating them through their addictions.

And quite often, people on Earth do believe that when another person meets their addictions, it means that person is being loving to them, and that is not true. If a person is meeting your addictions they are not being loving to you. They are assisting you to remain separate from love and separate from truth. This is something where I find a lot of people really struggle with me, because I will generally not be in a situation where I wish to meet a person’s addictions. Now under those circumstances, because most people believe that the meeting of addictions is the act of love, they then feel that I’m not very loving, and I feel that’s something that they need to have look at.

The reality is, a person who doesn’t meet your addictions is the most loving person in the room, to you. Unfortunately, on earth there are so many people who are engaged in constant addictive relationships, they’ve become so used to having their addictions met that they believe the only way they get love is by having their addictions met. In fact, that’s not love. That is a co-dependent bartering system. It’s not the gift of love being offered to them, even though they may feel it is. I think we need to make that sort of caveat on this discussion.

Mary: Definitely. That’s why I sort of said earlier about … it depends very much on how much we really understand love, doesn’t it?

Yes, and the average person obviously doesn’t understand love very much, so we need to honour the fact that we don’t. We’ve grown up in an environment that hasn’t taught us anything about love really. It’s taught us a lot about co-dependent addictions, but it has taught us hardly anything about the gift of true love, the gift of a love that doesn’t require self-sacrifice but it doesn’t require the sacrifice of others.

Mary: I know also, because of my many addictions and fears that I’ve lived in resistance to for a long time, when I would be telling truth to people in the past, I was often in a lot of addiction myself. What I know from that … and so my truth-giving might go something like, “I know what this is like for you, because I’ve got all these issues as well.”

And bang, there’s the addiction.

Mary: (Laughter) Yes, so that’s me trying to say, “It’s okay, I’m with you, don’t be confronted because I am like you.”

Yes. You’re already trying to pacify the potential response of the individual. This is an attempt to manipulate their response emotionally, which is actually an attempt to manipulate their will, which is not loving.

Mary: I would go on like this, and say, “But you know you have this issue, and it comes from your childhood, so you know you can work through it,” and all of this kind of crap.

The pacifist. It’s pacifying: it’s like giving a person a dummy. (Laughs) In Australia a dummy is something you put in a baby’s mouth so they can suck on it and feel pacified. I think in the States they call it a pacifier, and it’s like giving a person a pacifier or a dummy, so they can feel nice and secure and safe while they are hearing a whole heap of truth. A person who loves you doesn’t do that.

Mary: No because actually, in that addiction I am fostering the lack of growth in both of us. I’m saying, “I’m afraid of what’s happening and I don’t want to feel that, I’m afraid of … it might not even be a real thing that might happen in you. But because I’m living in fear, I’m avoiding that, so I’m avoiding growth, and I am also wanting to limit the amount you’re going to grow through what I say, because there’s not a full confrontation of the truth.”

Well what it is, the true thing it is, is the expression of fear. The person who does that is not acknowledging their own fear, and their own fear is, that if they share the truth, even if it is in a loving and gentle way, they feel the other person will have an overreaction to it, and get angry and resentful. Then there will be some kind of breakdown of their relationship in some way, or some kind of feedback system where they no longer get their own addictions met.

Now all that is, is an avoidance of your own feelings, which is actually not truth and not the absorption of truth, and it is not loving. If every time you try to avoid your own feelings, even the feelings of being potentially attacked, if you try to avoid them then you’re not in a loving state, so it’s very counterproductive to attempt to share truth with a person in that manner, then at the same time trying to pacify their response. The fact is, a lot of people need to have an angry response to feel their own resistance.

Mary: Absolutely, and that’s what I was going to go on to say. What I notice in those interactions that I have had in the past, a lot of people thought I was a very nice lady, and that was my aim. They thought I was quite loving and kind, which was also my aim, but it wasn’t the truth, because I was, as you just pointed out, living in my fear …

And it’s not loving to feed their addictions or your own, so you weren’t being loving.

Mary: Exactly. I wasn’t being loving in any way. Now I have grown a bit from that point, and I feel much clearer now about when I am going to speak to someone. I do that in the context of situations where we already have an understanding that they want to receive truth from me. I don’t do it with the supermarket checkout girl, but if I am in an interaction with a person who has already said to me, “Look, I want to grow in love,” then I’ll be clear and direct with them about what I see is going on. That means that I just say, well I said to someone yesterday, “You are just incredibly angry with men. It comes out of you like a huge barrage,” and in this case I said, “I don’t actually know the exact causes, but I can tell you that that’s what comes out of you, and I do know the process you’re going to have to go through in order to find the cause.”

And didn’t you also say that you could feel in her a feeling that if a person has a penis, then it means they should be attacked. (Laughter)

Mary: Yes. I was very clear and direct with this person, because I know the power of receiving that truth from someone who’s not judging you. I didn’t feel any sense of judgement towards her, but I felt that it was actually an act of love to give her this awareness. Five years ago I would have frozen in terror at even being able to speak that, so directly.

And remember your emails five years ago? You’d do two or three pages of email that didn’t really say anything at all (laughter), and wasn’t direct at all …

Mary: … and hope they’d get it.

And hope they’d get it, whereas now it’s like two or three paragraphs of email with each point very clear, and being afraid when you click the ‘send’ button.

Mary: Yes. (Laughter) Absolutely, but also recognising exactly what you said, that I personally have had a lot of resistance to a lot of things. I’ve had to get angry and I know now, that my brothers and sisters out there, sometimes they’re going to need to go through anger. My anger was like a big indication to me. When I realised, “I am angry,” I couldn’t deny I had a problem anymore. I wanted to deny it.

Exactly. Shall we say, a self-reflective person who gets angry can’t deny that they have a problem anymore? But a non-self-reflective person who gets angry usually does deny that they have a problem, and usually thinks that everyone else is the problem. Obviously, if you are attempting to grow in love and you are self-reflective, one of the key indicators that you’re very resistive is your anger.

Mary: Yes. I suppose in those interactions I don’t get as many people believing that I am a loving, nice, kind girl, but actually I am more confident, because I feel the love inside of me when I am able to communicate in that way. I know I am not judging. I actually do have compassion, because I’ve been the person in resistance, and I also have been the person who has received the truth with the presence of love, and it’s changed me, and so I feel much more confident. Not in every situation; I am not without addiction.

It’s a growing thing.

Mary: Yes, but very many more people feel very much that I’m not loving in that state, and they believe their celestial guides are more loving than that, because it’s all very gentle and kind. And I feel there’s no lack of gentleness here.

The reality is, true celestial spirit communication involves a lot of very, very frank conversation. If that is not occurring, then it’s totally because the person has an addiction with a first sphere spirit who they probably believe is a celestial spirit; they are receiving information from a first sphere spirit feeding their addictions. And they go, “Isn’t it wonderful? I get all my addictions met by these spirits, I think I will call them my guides, and I think I will call them celestial spirits so that I can feel good about it.”

Honestly, we’re just being in self-delusion in that state. It’s a pointless state, actually, for your own progression. It is far better to acknowledge that, yes, there are a lot of hard things you’re going to have to acknowledge about yourself and your own condition, and the sooner you do it the better. The sooner you allow yourself to see that your concept of love is completely different than God’s, the faster you’re going to progress.

Mary: It’s certainly an issue that’s affected the clarity of my mediumship, as a medium, while I still have addictions and fears of people’s responses. I know, my guides tell me, and the celestial spirits that come to speak though me tell me, “We’re not able to say everything we want.” They want to be direct and clear and straight to the point, because they know that’s the only way that maximises the potential for growth for a person, but my fear of public opinion often limits their ability to do that, and it’s something that I feel is quite … it’s an ethical issue for myself.

Yes. If a person reflects upon the fact: all celestial spirits want to help you get beyond your resistance. They want to help you see that what is dominating your soul at the moment mostly, is your unhealed emotional state. They want to help you get past the preclusive concepts that you have inside of yourself, that stop you from progression, and they want to help you start absorbing some more truth.

Now to do that, they have to confront within you all of the error, and to do that they are going to have to be quite strong about it, because you don’t want to confront all of the truth within you. Most of us have no desire to confront it. At the beginning of our endeavour to grow we have no desire to confront it. They have to help us through this process, and so their attempts are always trying to help us get to the state where they can be frank with us.

The fact that most people who think they are communicating with celestial spirits feel they are nice and gentle, the reality is that the majority of celestial spirits, if they did come to speak with people on earth, the people on Earth would believe them to not be gentle. In fact, the people who they believe are gentle are actually in addiction with them, and are actually first sphere spirits who are wanting to get some of their own addictions met through the co-dependent relationship. I find that is very common, happening even now, and it will continue to do so, while the person remains completely in the state where they wish to avoid any confrontation of their own condition.

Mary: Yes, because it’s also true, isn’t it, that if we’re sensitive to the presence of love, then that confusion doesn’t happen at all, because the bigger presence of a celestial spirit is … the biggest presence is love, and if we are open to that and sensitive to that we can discern so easily.

Yes. They will say very truthful things to you, and they won’t skirt around any issues; they’re very direct. In fact, they will give you one-liners, and if you don’t take them they will go, “Okay, that’s all I’m going to say about the subject,” and off they go.

They’re not the kind of people who will hang around sometimes, like I do, and talk to you for an hour, trying to help you see the issue. Generally they’ll just say, “No, well you don’t want to see the issue, that’s fine, that’s your call. I’ll go and help someone who does want to see the issue.”

This is something we need to learn on Earth too. We need to stop spending as much time with people who have no desire to grow, no desire for progression, and we need to spend more time with the people who have a true desire to grow and to progress.

This is one reason why we’ve started to have fewer seminars lately – because we can feel that people have reached a point of intellectual saturation of material, without there being any true motive to grow. That’s an issue. We want to go and spend time with the people who have a true motive to grow, and that means doing things like this. Things like this are great, because it’s only the people who have a true motive to grow that might listen to it. The other people will look at it and go, “I don’t want to know about that; that all sounds pretty theoretical to me,” and then they will go onto something else.

Mary: I suppose it’s something that we’re trying to focus on a lot – the content, so that it’s a resource in time to come, and for whoever might want to pick it up at a certain time and have a look.

We feel strongly that there are quite a lot of people on this planet who do have a true desire to grow, but at the moment are quite disillusioned about growth, and feel that maybe growth isn’t possible. The more we can share, sooner or later the information will get out there, through all sorts of communication mechanisms, and eventually all of the people who are on Facebook, and who are unloving to each other, even though they call it a divine truth forum or whatever, all of those kinds of people will realise, “Well I am being unloving to my brother or sister; it feels like I’m being unloving, and they feel like I’m being unloving, and we’re here trying to attack each other and denigrate each other, which is actually not the presence of love.” Then perhaps they’ll start questioning their own … they’ll have some kind of more rapid and more honest self-assessment, and that will be fantastic.

But the presence of love should be the way that any person who is sincere about growing, measures somebody’s true intention for them. If I can feel in another person that they are loving when they try to talk to me about a subject, I will listen to them for hours. Even if I disagree with everything they say, I’ll communicate with them for hours. If a person comes to me thinking they want some kind of truth, but at the same time they are very unloving to me, we’ll be lucky to have a five minute interaction, to be frank, because there is no desire for love, there’s no desire for growth, there’s no real desire for truth, and their soul precludes the absorption of any new information that could help them out of that state, so what’s the point of spending any time? There’s not much point.

Mary: Yes, and perhaps an important thing that you just touched on there: you were saying that it is important that when someone has the presence of love then, “Great. Let’s spend time with them,” but you also mentioned about the ability for us to self-reflect when we are interacting with others. “Do I feel present with love right now? And if I don’t, then should I really be speaking?” (Laughter)

Yes. “Should I really open my mouth? It’s like yes, I feel quite strongly that we have a mind, and obviously we’ve talked about the mind a bit, and we can utilise this mind to shut up when we need to shut up. When we need to shut up is when we don’t feel loving. That’s when we need to shut up, because we need to go away and go through the emotional reasons why we feel so unloving, and why we feel like we want to speak up in an unloving way. That’s the best time to shut up in fact.

Even if we believe we are being loving and the people around us feel we are not loving, just analyse two things: Are we meeting their addictions or not? If we’re meeting their addictions, and they feel that we are being unloving, then that’s true. If we’re meeting their addictions and they feel we are being loving, then that’s false. If we are not meeting their addictions and they think we’re being loving, that’s true.

These things we need to consider: What are the interactions with the individuals? What’s going on with the personal interactions? But we’re best keeping our mouths shut when we can feel within us an unloving emotion, because it is not going to end very well generally.

Mary: No it’s not, and we can end up doing more damage to ourselves, and to the people around us, because we’re just lacking the sincerity to just say, “Look, I am far too …”

And we’re not in a state where we’re going to learn anything.

Mary: Yes, “ … and I am far too invested in speaking right now.”

You can just say, “Look, I can feel I am just getting angry about this subject now, and I’ve just got to go away and have a good feel about why I am so angry about it, what’s causing me to feel so angry.”

Mary: Alright, well that’s a great discussion I think, about presence.

Have we discussed most of the points that were raised?

Mary: Yes, that we had made a note of, just that we’d mention that without love we can analyse the message on its merits. I think we covered that.

Yes. I feel we still have the capacity intellectually to analyse a message, and to determine whether it has a degree of truth or not, that we need to perhaps feel about. It’s not always the case that we can do so, of course. For example, if a person is purposefully raising an issue of truth with you, to point out one of your errors that you don’t want to know about, then they are obviously being unloving, but let’s say you do want to know about it; they’re pointing it out to you and you do want to know about it, but they are being unloving. You’ve got to be very careful about absorbing the emotion that comes with that so-called truth.

Now the fact that you’re sitting there already absorbing it, is an indication that the real error is not the one that they are discussing with you. Actually, the real error is that you’re sitting there absorbing a heap of very damaging and abusive emotions while they are discussing it with you; that would be the truth you would be focused on.

Sometimes I am in situations where a person is telling me a whole heap of things about myself that I know are completely untrue, but I am wondering why I am sitting there and absorbing it, because that’s the truth I need to look at. Why am I still sitting here absorbing it? Why am I still attracting this kind of a person, and why do they think they can get away with this kind of a discussion inside of their soul? There’s got to be something in my soul that’s allowing this to flow, and allowing them to attack me in some way, without there being some … there must be a hole there, some kind of error inside of my soul that allows this process to occur, and that’s the truth I need to focus on. They might be speaking, and I am thinking about something completely different, and I can see I’ve got a problem with that thing, not the thing they’re speaking about, but the thing that is demonstrable through the emotional condition.

Mary: I must say it is very humbling for me at times, to experience the difference between what is attracted when I am with you, and when I am not with you, because there is such a strong presence of love and truth within you, that very often, people just don’t feel okay to behave in ways that they still feel okay to behave around me, in terms of a lack of love, or a lack of truth, that’s to do with my fears and my unhealed emotions and my addictions and things.

Yes. That’s why sometimes people don’t speak up very much at a group. They normally speak behind our back, but when it comes to a group, they might attend a group but they won’t say the things they said to us behind our back, because they can automatically feel the presence of love there, and the presence of truth there, and they automatically feel that they are out of harmony with love if they say something, and so they don’t say anything. But then, because the dominance of their soul is that they still want to be out of harmony with love, when they go away from that situation, their soul dominates. They speak up the unloving thing that they have always felt, but they never felt that they could say in my presence.

Mary: Okay, I think that’s all that we wanted to speak about presence. To summarise, basically explained, when someone has the truth within their soul, they will be able to express that truth with love. They will be able to explain it clearly, the causes for it, and how to remove it. They will honour the free will of the individual that they’re communicating with.

And they will have understanding and compassion while they’re doing it.

Mary: And something I think you spoke about with Luli, and you’ve mentioned again today, was just that you can be in a progression, in terms of the presence of love.

If we’re a progressive soul, which is one of the principal of the soul’s functions, obviously we’re in a state of progression. That means that we’re not going to be perfect on any of these points until we are at-one with God. What we’ve got to come to see, is that at any one point in time, we are in different states with regard to these particular functions of the soul, and until we become at-one with God, that will remain the case. We’re not going to be able to be perfected in love until the time we’re at-one with God.

But if we allow ourselves to understand these particular principles of how the soul functions, we have a way to become at-one with God, and we start to more accurately examine the underlying things that are going on within our soul, that cause us to not be at-one with God. This allows us to have a true self-assessment of our own condition. I feel that's what’s essential here: to be able to see yourself as you truly are, and to understand how to get from where you truly are to becoming at-one with God, where you are 100% of the time present in love, and 100% of the time understanding how the soul functions, all the time.

After that point, it’s no longer theory, it’s fact. You don’t need the theory any more obviously. Every celestial spirit knows all of these principles we’re discussing about How the Human Soul Functions and feels, “Yes, why do we need to discuss them? – because we all know how it works. (Laughter) We don’t need to discuss them anymore,” because it’s now in your soul. Even the knowledge of how your own soul functions is in your soul now. That’s a beautiful place to be obviously. It enables you, after that point, to grow even more rapidly, because there’s obviously still growth after you become at-one with God, in terms of the condition. This enables you to make this progress, because you now fully understand in your soul as emotions how the soul itself functions, so therefore you know fully in your soul how to grow after that point. You don’t need the assistance of another to help you grow, although that assistance is still kindly offered, obviously.

Mary: Yes, and the other thing I suppose you said, conversely, was that you talked about ways we can analyse whether there is a presence of love with the truth being delivered, and so when there are things like attack, belittling, humiliation …

… character assassination …

Mary: … yes, no logical flow, like ideas able to be presented or being presented or demonstrated even, attempts to manipulate your free will, with all of those things being done or said in the context of sharing it, the supposed truth, then it’s safe for us to analyse it. Whatever’s being presented we need to consider…

Potentially consider.

Mary: Yes, but we need to consider in light of the fact that we know that love is not present with what is being presented.

Correct. So we have something to work on about, “Why isn’t love present?” Because obviously, if love is not being reflected towards us there is usually a reason within us, not always, but usually a reason within us, that allows that to occur, and if it’s happening all the time then we need to examine that. I need to state though, in that second part, as a caveat if you like as well, that many people believe their character is being assassinated when it is not, when it’s just a statement of truth. For example, a celestial spirit will go to a person in the Hells and say, “You are a liar, a scoundrel and a cheat,” and they have been all of those things. That is a statement of truth. The celestial spirit’s not trying to character-assassinate the individual, he’s just trying to help the person to come to a condition where they see their true state.

Mary: Similar to the discussion I was having with the lady I had yesterday, where I said, “Look, I feel like if someone has a penis, they’re in trouble when it comes to you.” That was not an attempt to assassinate her character. I wasn’t trying to say, “ … and that makes you a bad person.” I was just saying, “This is the truth … “

“ … and this is the state that you are currently in.” So we’ve got to be very, very careful. See, most people don’t have the ability to correctly assess when a person is making a statement that they don’t like to hear. They often want to believe the motive is bad when it may not be. This is a problem that many people on earth face. We often want the motive of the person who is telling us the truth to be bad, so that we can ignore the truth they’re telling us. We’ve got to be very careful about such motivations, because they are all errors. Therefore, they all preclude the absorption of more truth.

Mary: Beautiful. Okay, well thank you for that discussion.

It was a good discussion about that aspect of presence, wasn’t it?

Mary: Yes, and the necessity for love to be present for truth to really exist.

And for both love and truth … if both love and truth are present, you have a great ability to grow, a much greater ability then if just truth is present without love.

3. Discussion and questions about “Suppression”

Mary: This is the final session in our discussion of “How The Human Soul Functions”. We’re up to our final principle which is called “suppression.” It’s not, by any means, a comprehensive discussion of all you need to know about the human soul, but it’s just the end of this series of talks we’re doing between Jesus and me, in April of 2014. There’s more to come but this is the last part of this series. So we’re going to discuss the principle of suppression.

Let’s firstly read my definition of suppression. “Suppression is the principle that: a person using their will to suppress any one emotion within the soul, will also suppress the entire soul, and therefore be unable to experience all emotions to the full extent, whether the emotion being suppressed is painful or pleasurable, and whether the emotion desired is pleasurable. The soul is incapable of responding with sensitivity to all emotions, when the will is used by the individual to suppress any one particular emotion. This will apply particularly to any emotions that have a similar flavour or quality to the emotion being suppressed.”

We can discuss that a little bit firstly, can’t we?

Mary: Yes. Basically you’re saying that if we suppress one emotion, we pretty much dampen down all of the emotional experience of our soul.


Mary: So heavy resistance to one particular thing, my capacity to experience any other feelings is dampened down by that process?

Correct, even if the emotion itself is not related to the other emotions that you would like to experience. That’s the important thing.

Mary: My suppression of fear, very strongly, actually limits my capacity to feel any other pleasurable emotion, like joy or excitement, or any of those things.

Correct. In fact there is often this duality with some emotions. For example with fear, now that you’ve raised the issue of fear – the suppression of fear automatically causes the suppression of desire. This is an interesting aspect about desire and fear, and how they are related to each other. Because these two emotions are like opposite ends of the pendulum, if you suppress one of them, it’s highly unlikely you will be able to fully engage the other.

In fact, all desires become suppressed by the fear itself that is being suppressed, so the more you suppress fear within yourself, the more you will find, in fact, that you have most of your desires also suppressed, and you have this sort of thing where even seemingly unrelated emotions are unable to be experienced, because of your desire, or using your will, to suppress. It’s a very powerful thing to understand about the soul. What God’s trying to teach us with this particular aspect of the soul, is that God’s trying to say to us, “Don’t suppress anything. As soon as you suppress something it’s stored within you, and it then has its effect upon the rest of your existence. You need to learn to not suppress anything.”

Now obviously there are loving and unloving ways to deal with emotion. If a person who has a lot of anger in their soul decides to not suppress their anger, and instead goes out on a murdering spree, then obviously they are completely out of harmony with love, and out of harmony with all of God’s Laws on that subject. We’re not suggesting that. What we’re suggesting is they need to feel their anger without taking any action, which is the denial of their anger in fact.

Mary: Yes, that’s what I was going to say. A person who goes on a killing spree, can we really say they’ve stopped suppressing? They’re acting out in another way to avoid it, aren’t they?

Correct. They are using other addictive things that they wish to engage, in order to continue to not face up to the fact that they have a lot of fear they’re not allowing themselves to feel, which means they have a lot of fear they are suppressing. This is the sad thing about many people who suppress emotion too. It is that when you suppress an emotion, you will automatically create an addiction to allow for the suppression of the emotion to occur.

This is another aspect of suppression that we need to understand, that addictions are directly related to our desire to suppress fears. Our addictions are not caused by having fear. They are caused by our desire to suppress the feeling of fear that we have. We need to understand that relationship.

Suppression is a very important aspect of how our soul functions that we need to understand, if we’re ever going to progress from an emotional perspective.

Mary: Yes, because it sort of feels to me that emotion is created to flow. That’s it in its most harmonious state. We allow it to flow through us. We don’t act upon it, we don’t suppress it. Sometimes, as it’s flowing and we realise it’s in harmony with love, we might choose to act upon it, but not before we’ve allowed the flow of the emotion in the soul, and allowed the experience of that emotion.

It seems to me that even all of the other principles that we’ve discussed, happen naturally. You were speaking in our last discussion about Celestial spirits not needing to have the theory written down, because it’s all a matter of course for them. If we could understand this one principle of suppression, and get out of suppression, it seems like all of these other principles would naturally be known, and we would also deal with a lot. We would progress. The things that preclude other things would begin to move.

Yes. I don’t feel that’s completely the case.

Mary: Great.

Because there are issues such as, for example, issues of resistance that can exist even if we’re not suppressing. We need to understand that these areas of the soul, or how the soul functions, you can’t really engage one aspect of them and hope that all of them will be cured. They need to be understood and engaged collectively. They’re not individually able to be engaged and practised in terms of a soul-based way, without there being some kind of resistance in other directions. While it’s important to acknowledge that suppression has a large effect on people, in fact a huge effect on people here on Earth, just because we get out of suppression, it doesn’t mean we’re going to get out of resistance.

Mary: No. You’re right. I kind of have this strange thing with this whole discussion where, when we first sat down to do it, I found it hard to differentiate the different principles, because they all seemed like the same thing to me. So yes, I shouldn’t idealise the suppression aspect, I agree.

You have found from your own experience that suppression has the effect of suppressing other feelings, not just the feeling you’re attempting to suppress. I notice this happening a lot in people, particularly in people who’ve had abusive or difficult childhoods. Whether the abuse has been verbal, emotional, physical or sexual in nature, generally there is a large degree of suppression of certain memories, thoughts and feelings. As soon as they do that, they also find themselves quite numb to most of their life, and most of their existence. This is a natural consequence of the attempt to suppress one area of their life. The key is to learn to not suppress it. I know with some people that is quite difficult given the fact that they’ve had a lot of very traumatic events occur in their life.

You and I have both been tortured to death, for example, so going through the memories of those is quite difficult, and there’s a tendency to attempt to suppress the memories. Of course there is the knowledge that if we attempt to suppress that memory, then there are all sorts of aspects of our life that start to get suppressed as a result. This is where it’s quite difficult if you have gone through very traumatic events. When you suppress those traumatic events, you have to use a lot of energy, and a lot of force of will.

Mary: I was going to say – bring up next – that it’s actually exhausting to live in suppression …

Very exhausting.

Mary: … because we are acting to suppress how emotion naturally exists in the soul, and the dominance of our soul almost, where we are acting to try to suppress it, it just gets so tiring.

It’s a major cause, in fact, of death on this planet, given that almost every person who dies of old age, dies from suppression, which is an interesting statement if you think about it. Basically, what I’m saying is that because of the aspect of suppression, the attempt to suppress certain emotions within us, we finish up dying. Shutting down all of our emotional flow that occurs in our spirit body, that would keep our physical body alive, would cause our death. This is the main reason why people die from old age.

Pretty much all death on this planet is caused by suppression. It’s such a big issue, and we’re taught suppression from a very, very young age. Oftentimes we’re violently taught suppression. In other words when a child starts to express its emotion, without suppression, the adult generally tries to force the child. Some, many times through violent force, will smack the child, or, if it’s not verbal abuse it will be physical abuse, where they try to control the child back into suppression.

This is why most of the human race has huge trouble with suppression, why it’s such a difficult thing to grasp, for most people, when they first start feeling their emotion. They feel they can select their emotions, and you can’t. This whole concept that you can select your emotion, and survive and actually grow, is flawed completely from the beginning. But you can see why the majority of us are so focused on doing it, because it is something that we are taught from such a young age.

We’re taught to do it from the moment we’re born, and usually before then. Our parents are already, through their example, suppressing their emotions, so in the womb we are being taught already to suppress our emotions. Any time we gave mother a kick she might have suppressed that feeling rather than going, “Oh, there’s my baby,” and just acknowledge it. She might go, “Urrhh!”, and feel a bit of anger about being kicked in the bladder, and there’s a bit of suppression feeling already on that child. Then when we’re born, after that it becomes quite intense, the amount of pressure that the average person on the planet receives to suppress, so it’s no wonder that we have such trouble with it here on the planet.

Mary: Well we get rewarded as children, don’t we, to suppress?


Mary: “Here, have a lolly. Oh, look out the window, look at the birdie.” And, “Wow, I get sweets and I get attention if I shut up and stop crying.


Mary: We’re almost taught the opposite of what is truthful from our parental relationship with God. If we allow our emotions we have more connection with our true Parent, but in our childhood it was often the reverse, wasn’t it?

Yes, and we use, as adults, as parents, the candy and the stick, “The carrot and the stick,” as the saying goes. We use both forms of ways to suppress our children, and so our children, by the time they become adults, use those same methods on themselves.

This is why we have so many problems with drugs, alcohol, food-based addictions, and all those kinds of things, which are all tools that were used in our childhood generally to suppress emotion. Going to drugs and alcohol obviously might not have been, but it’s the definite result of the underlying desire of a parent to suppress a child’s emotion. The child obviously then feels totally controlled, and totally manipulated. Then when they become an adult, they seek some kind of outlet for this feeling of being controlled and manipulated, through some substance abuse.

Almost every form of self-abuse, and I would classify smoking, alcohol, drugs, obesity, and lots of other forms of self-abuse that we have on the planet, have generally been caused by our parents wanting us to suppress our emotions. It’s such a large problem, and it’s causing huge medical problems on the planet. Lots of problems with what we classify as curable diseases are caused by this problem with suppression, so it’s a huge problem that we need to address. It’s going to be, if we want to become at-one with God, a huge problem inside of us that we need to address.

I remember at the beginning of my progression in this life again, I didn’t even know what I felt. If somebody had asked me, “Do you feel happy? Sad?” whatever, there were times when I knew I felt sad, but it was rare. Most of the time I had no idea what I felt. I didn’t know when I was happy. I didn’t know when I was sad. I didn’t know when I was angry. I didn’t know when I was afraid. I didn’t know anything. I had no self-awareness of any emotion.

Mary: Personally, I didn’t even question. I didn’t even think, “What do I feel right now?”

I was adept at suppressing, using all forms of techniques. My favourite one was working too hard. A lot of people have that problem, don’t they? where they just work, work, work, work, die working almost, without the ability to enjoy anything. I think there was one period of my life where I didn’t have a holiday for seven years. I was working a hundred and twenty hours a week on the average, which meant I wasn’t getting much sleep, and I didn’t have a holiday for seven years. That’s because I wanted to use that as a tool for suppression. Once I broke through those barriers I started to feel things.

This is what is going to be required of a person who is in heavy suppression. They’re going to need to have time. They’re going to need to slow down their life, and have time to analyse their life. The only way you do that is through your will. You have to actually exercise your will to make that decision to do that.

Mary: Because before that point we’re using our will to suppress, aren’t we?


Mary: It becomes a question of will again, doesn’t it? That we have to shift the use of our will from suppression, to even desire to know what we’re suppressing, or how we’re suppressing, or why we’re suppressing.

Yes. You could say, with this aspect of suppression, there are sort of layers of it. Remember, the whole reason why we’re suppressing is driven by some emotional resistance. The whole reason for suppression is not some intellectual thought, or some kind of idea or concept. It’s a deeply-ingrained, emotional condition that causes us to suppress, but in order to become open to the reasons why we suppress, we need to go through this process where we firstly become aware that we are suppressing. Then, what is it that we’re suppressing? What situations that we’re in do we suppress? This is where we can use our mind very logically to examine things more clearly.

Now of course if there’s an emotion in you that you don’t want to do that, then you won’t do that. But my recommendation to people is … look, all of human society has a huge problem with suppression, so you need to become aware. From total denial of this suppression, you need to become aware. Then you need to start to feel the reasons why you suppress. Now that is going to be an ever-changing proposition.

You can’t expect to go from full suppression to no suppression in one week. It’s not going to happen that way. Also, you can’t expect to go from full suppression on one type of emotion, and openness on that same type of emotion, to then expecting that you’re going to be open on every emotion, because it doesn’t work that way either. We often have some emotions that we are far more invested in suppressing than other emotions, so we need to recognise, and the only way we can recognise, is through some very clear, logical, analysis of our own behaviour, activities, and life.

That’s the only way we’re going to go through this phase. Now that is the use of our will, again. This is where it comes down to, “How are we using our will in our day-to-day life?” What I find a lot of people doing is, they say, “I do want to learn about what I’m suppressing.” Then I ask them, “Well, what do you do each day to learn that?” “Oh, nothing.” They go out to work for eight hours a day. They come home, they have dinner, they watch a bit of telly, they go to bed, get up the next day, have a shower and go to work. There’s no time for self-reflection about their own suppression. Now I would suggest to such a person, “Well suppression, and dealing with suppression, is not a high priority in your life. If it’s not a high priority in your life, then the fact is, you won’t deal with it. You need to change your life somehow to make it a higher priority in your life. You need to give yourself more time for self-reflection, if you’re ever going to get out of this condition that was created in your childhood.”

This is where I feel we need to emphasise to people: use your will, your will. We’ve said this so much in this Human Soul discussion. This is why, as you said, we will later have a discussion about the use of will. We need to learn how to use our will better. We need to learn to honour our will. We need to learn to take action about our will, rather than just going …

What I feel a lot of people want is some kind of miracle cure. It’s not like that with the soul. There is no miracle cure for the soul. You need to take full self-responsibility. You need to have a pure, heart-felt motivation in your soul to change. Nothing else is going to change you. It doesn’t matter how much truth you receive, if you don’t have that pure heart-felt desire and motivation, if you don’t have those things, you are going to struggle. You are going to struggle so much.

Mary: Yes. I see that in myself sometimes, and I see it in others where we sort of have this idea like, “Oh, my soul.” (Mary makes a gesture indicating the soul as something separate to herself.) For me, I have a lot of fear about the truth about my soul, and who I am, that I’m working through. Taking my time on that.

But we sort of have this idea that somehow, magically, our emotions are going to appear from this soul that we’ve lived in such suppression and disconnection from, and then we will know what it’s all about. “Oh yes, that emotion will come up, and then I’ll know,” without really engaging our will to go, “This soul is not something separate from me. It’s me, and I’m in charge here.”

And, “Do I want to know?”

Mary: Do I want to know? It’s not going to magically drop in my lap. I’m going to have to go there, find what is inside of me through an effort of my will, and acknowledge that that process is under the control, as you just said, of my will. I’ve got to want it, and then I’ve got to do it. They’re both things that are my responsibility, each of our responsibility.

Exactly. Nobody else can take those actions for us. There’s no single person who can help us feel our own self. When I say that, that’s excluding ourselves. We are the only person who is able to feel our self. We need to, at some point, put some priority on that. If we’re ever going to grow towards God, we’re going to need to put some priority on that. That means we’re going to need to give ourselves some time. That means we’re going to have to restructure our life so that we can make progression. This is why … I think, many years ago I had a talk with a group of people, about a hundred people, five or six years ago, about creating a space for soul progression. You need to design your life so that you can get out of suppression and into feeling the resistances you have to progression. Then you will make progression.

What I find is a lot of people almost expect there to be some magical solution, so when you say to them, “Well you need to take some effort on this,” you can feel from them that they don’t want to take the effort. They just want some magical pill to pop. They want somebody in the medical profession to make them a pill that they can pop.

Mary: Or a process.

Or a process. They want to go along to a psychologist and sit with them, and he does all the work for them, or they want someone else to do it for them, their partner, their friends, their workmates, their colleagues, their doctor, their psychologist, their whatever it is that they’re looking for. They want that because they don’t want to have to do it themselves. That is one of our resistances. That’s one of the areas. If you have that resistance, I’d say to you, “Try to deal with that first, because if you don’t deal with that you’re going to cause so many problems with your progression.”

Mary: That’s really awesome I think, what you just said, that if you are willing to find your resistances, and you make time for that, and you sit with it and engage your will, progress will happen.


Mary: I know I still hate sitting with my resistance, a lot of times, because it feels like in that place, “Well no, this is the reason why nothing is moving. I don’t want to be with this. I want to get moving.”

And I don’t know how many times I have to go through working through resistance to really remember next time that if I just sit with the resistance, it will begin to change. The reasons why I don’t want to grow, if I let myself experience them emotionally, I will begin to grow.

And we’ve had discussions, haven’t we, where I’ve said, “Sometimes I would like to tie you down and say, don’t do anything, just feel. Don’t do anything.” Because I feel there are so many distractions in the life that we have here on Earth. The average person on Earth has created a life of distraction, where every single moment is taken up with time of something. We have all these gadgets now. If you’re not watching telly at the same time as you’re texting, at the same time as you’re listening to some music, and doing your homework as a child, then you’re not really switched on. There’s no time to do any one thing, and this is a problem because there are so many tools that we can now use in an addictive manner in order to maintain suppression of our soul. It’s only when you give your soul space, when you give yourself space and time, that you will start to notice what’s really going on in your soul.

Some of the times you wish you could take everything away from a person, put them in a padded room and say, “Now just feel and don’t do anything, and I’ll feed you three times a day.” And then take only two times a day, just to help that one as well.

Mary: I was going to say, “Could all the meals be chocolate?” (Laughter)

Yes, just help the person get out of this state of desiring to constantly suppress their emotional life. Obviously you couldn’t do that and be in harmony with love, because there’s the issue of a person’s free will.

Mary: Exactly. Also their will, and the dominance of their soul could mean that they sit in the padded cell and create a way to play noughts and crosses for the next six months. You’ve got to want to emotionally go to your emotional padded cell and just create the space for emotions to arise, don’t you?

While there are tools and techniques that we can use to help us out of resistance, and out of suppression, unless the soul’s will is actively engaged in wanting that, it’s very, very hard for a person to maintain any momentum in doing so. True progression can really only continuously occur when we maintain the momentum of confronting all of our resistance, and all of our suppression. Then the natural process of the soul, that you observe in a child, becomes a part of you as an adult. Once that happens, then you naturally go through processes emotionally that before you were heavily suppressing or resisting.

I feel the average person doesn’t honour the fact that they are actively using their will to suppress, and the average person doesn’t honour the fact that they are not taking any responsibility for their own soul to stop suppression. I feel that they are two areas that people need to look at if they’re ever going to get out of that condition of suppression.

Mary: Yes, and again this is where you spoke a lot yesterday, when we talked about resistance, about the person’s responsibility to see these things, and to act, to take responsibility for what we’re choosing and how we’re using our will.

Yes. While we may not have created the problem of suppression within us, and for most of us that is definitely the case – the creation of suppression was caused by our environment and our parental upbringing – while we may not have created it, we are certainly responsible for its maintenance. This is what we need to come to terms with. We are often maintaining what other people created, and we often now have the belief systems that such suppression is still worth doing.

This is contrary, completely contrary to the way God designed your soul, so you are naturally going to experience quite a lot of pain while you are in suppression. Often we try to suppress that. We try to become numb to that, and we get to the point where we’re numb to almost everything, even, in our desire to suppress. That is under the control of our own will. While other persons may have damaged us with this aspect of suppression, we can’t then blame them for maintaining the state. We need to see that only we can get out of this state of suppression, and we’re going to have to take some pretty strong-willed steps in order to do so. We’re going to have to exercise our will in a very firm manner sometimes, with ourselves.

I had a discussion with Tristan, my son, the other day. He said he’s been in suppression a lot and he’s been using video games to suppress. So what he decided to do – and he spent lots and lots of money on these videos (I wouldn’t be surprised if he spent thousands of dollars or even more than that on these videos) and machines to play them of course – and what he said was that he gave them all away to places that look after children and all these other things. He gave all of his games way and everything, just so that he could confront the fact that he was using these tools to suppress. It does sometimes take that kind of an action before you will actually come face-to-face with some of the resistive emotions that you are facing.

So there’s that aspect, which is the aspect of using our will to suppress, and then changing our will, and then using our will to no longer suppress, and using our will to create a life so that suppression is more difficult. This is an active way that we can use our will.

Mary: Yes. What about when we just simply don’t understand this principle of suppression?

Yes. I suppose you could say now, this is the situation of ignorance that many people are in, isn’t it? To me there are these two issues. There’s: “How am I using my will positively, or negatively?” Then there’s: “I didn’t know that I could use my will,” – type of discussion.

Mary: Yes, and also: “I didn’t know that if I suppress one emotion, all the others … “

… I suppress everything. I didn’t know all of these things about the soul. This is where I feel that education is a very important aspect, when it comes to learning about how the soul functions. One of the reasons why we have spent so much time on this particular group of discussions is that we feel that the majority of people are not very well educated about how their soul works. They want to believe it works differently. They want to believe that you can change something intellectually, and all of a sudden something will change. They want to believe that it’s easier than it actually is. They want to believe that they don’t have to feel their pain. They want to believe these things. They want to believe they can suppress, without feeling that there’s going to be any other penalty for such an action. They want to believe that they can resist, and they will still be able to grow. None of those things are true. Yet they want to believe them.

So this is about educating ourselves. We need to go over and over this material, I feel. If we really want to get out of suppression, and we really want to get into progression, particularly towards God, we need to allow ourselves now, to be educated about all of these aspects about what happens to the soul if we don’t do them.

My suggestion to people is, “Look, many of you probably hear this material, and many of you will possibly disagree with a lot of it. Well what I suggest to you is that while you disagree with it, you’re going to find progression very, very difficult towards God. If you could at least have a little smidge of faith, and a little bit of trust in what we’re saying to you about progression, and about how progression actually can occur, and how the actual human soul functions, and if you could allow yourself to have an open enough mind to actually look at all this material and examine it, then you have a chance of using this faith as a method of actually being able to now, potentially, progress.”

My suggestion is, “Educate yourself. If nothing else, educate yourself about your own soul. It’s yours. It’s going to be with you for the rest of your existence. You need to know about it and educate yourself about how it functions. Even if you don’t believe anything else about Divine Truth, at least understand how your soul functions. At least test it out. Go through some experiments to see whether what we’re saying to you about these particular aspects of the soul, actually work.”

I feel that this is how we get out of this state of ignorance with suppression as well. How we get out of the state of ignorance with suppression, is by actually educating ourselves and coming to have some faith, that when we suppress one emotion, we are going to be suppressing lots of other things. When we suppress one emotion, even if it’s fear, we are going to be suppressing good emotions such as desire, and love, and expression, and things like that. They are all going to be suppressed too.

We need to understand that our soul wasn’t built to suppress emotions. It was built, by God, to express emotions, so if we are suppressing emotions, we are actively working against the operation of how the soul was built to function. This is something we need to get, and understand. I feel hardly anybody on the planet understands it at this point in time. Many people we talk to still believe, and sometimes you still believe, don’t you, that you can suppress one thing, and everything will be alright in other aspects of your life. That does not work.

Mary: It does not work.

We need, at some point, to come to understand those particular truths. The only way we can do that is by educating ourselves, and then taking this second action, which is experimenting with the concepts that have been presented about how the soul functions, to see whether they are true or not.

Mary: Because the feedback does come. We quickly learn. Even through creating a bit of space for ourselves, and to feel and experiment with these principles that we’ve outlined, we quickly come to realise that they’re not so foreign, and actually these things have been operating all this time. It’s just that we haven’t always wanted the awareness of it.

Yes. One other thing I feel we need to mention is that God created all human souls with these functions.

Mary: No exceptions.

No exceptions. We quite often get emails from people, “My situation is unique.” I’m sorry, I cannot agree that your situation is unique. I believe that your personality is unique, certainly, but your situation, no. There have been many people in human history who have had similar situations to yourself, and every single one of us has been created with this ability to feel. In fact, the human soul is designed to express feelings. It was designed to express emotions. That is, every human soul, not only your soul, or my soul. There’s not a whole group of souls that don’t have that ability. Every human soul has been devised with these functions. It would be very cruel of God to not give this capacity to every human soul, in fact, if you think about it logically.

God has given this ability to express and feel emotions as a way to enjoy life, to every single human who has ever lived, and who will ever live, on this planet. We need to stop thinking about ourselves as, “My case is unique, and I find it difficult to feel emotions, and that’s because of my personality.” No, it’s not because of your personality. It’s because of your injuries of suppression that cause you to find the emotions difficult to feel and release. You need to use your will, particularly if you are an adult. You need to use your will now to stop maintaining this state. Get into the child-like state that you can be in as an adult, and be a very intelligent and straight-forward adult in that state.

What we probably need to do is suggest to people, “Stop thinking about yourself as a special case and start seeing yourself as, ‘Yes, I’m one of God’s creations, who created me with all of these functions of my soul, and all I need to do is learn how to use them. All I need to do is learn how I am suppressing them, and how I’m resisting them, and how I’m precluding them, how I’m resisting the dominance of love in my soul, and how I’m trying to prevent myself from absorbing new truth. I need to take full responsibility for that, because it is a capacity of everyone’s soul.’ “

The only time that that doesn’t apply, is if there’s a person with intellectual disabilities, or some other disability that does not allow the understanding. Sometimes they understand more about the soul than the average person, ironically, but even those people, when they arrive in the spirit world, are taught about how the soul functions. Every person, eventually, is taught about how the soul functions. Sooner or later, you’re going to need to understand how the soul functions, whether you decide to progress towards God, or not.

You will need to know how your soul functions, because if you do not, you will even struggle on the progression on the other path, which doesn’t involve God. You will still struggle, but you will definitely struggle when it comes to progressing with God, because God has lots and lots of emotions that God feels for you. God wants you to feel them, and if you’re resistive to that process, you will never feel them, never ever. We need to understand that if we want to progress on this path to God, it is an essential part of our progression to come to understand, and to understand how our soul functions when it comes to emotion. I think that’s probably a good place to stop our discussion.

Mary: It’s a great place.

We hope that you have enjoyed our discussion about the human soul, and how it functions. We hope that it’s helped you understand far better what’s happening inside of yourself, that causes you to go into a state where you are resistive, or go into a state where you are suppressing, or go into a state that causes you to not be able to progress towards God. That’s what we hope we’ve achieved through this discussion.

I’d like to thank Mary in this second half of the discussion, and Luli in the first half of the discussion, for going through these principles with me. We’d also like to thank Igor who has been behind the camera that’s facing me, and Lena who is behind the camera facing Mary, for the recording of the information. We now have a third camera in that direction there, which no one is behind, because we have a funny video switching unit which allows us to have a more live sort of a conversation. Hopefully you’re enjoying the fact that we’ve got slightly better technology in these discussions.

I think the next port of call with this discussion, is going to be for us to discuss aspects about emotion, and then how these points of the human soul functions fit into the discussion about emotions, and how to work through emotions. Hopefully you can join us with our discussion about emotions as well at some point in the future, and what we will do there is we will discuss emotion. We will also discuss how emotion is affected by how the human soul actually functions. We hope you will enjoy that discussion as well. We would like to close now, and thanks for your time Babe.

Mary: Thank you.

We look forward to seeing you again in another discussion.

Frequently Asked Questions - The Human Soul Session 3

Jesus and Mary have further discussions about how the human soul operates, which was introduced in Sessions 1 and 2, describing the principles of resistance, presence and suppression. Document source filename: 20140415 FAQ - Human Soul S03. This ebook is a collection of answers given by Jesus (AJ Miller) on the topic of the human soul. The answers were given in an interview with Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck), on 15th April 2013 in Wilkesdale, Queensland, Australia.

  • ISBN: 9781310134258
  • Author: Divine Truth
  • Published: 2016-03-25 09:35:09
  • Words: 36185
Frequently Asked Questions - The Human Soul Session 3 Frequently Asked Questions - The Human Soul Session 3