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Table of Contents
Hi. I’m Mary Magdalene and in this series on our Frequently Asked Questions channel I’m going to be answering questions that are commonly asked me by members of the public and the media. I’ve asked my good friend Eloisa to come and compile the questions and ask them of me in this series that you’re about to view. I hope you enjoy; I’m looking forward to it!
Yes, I am Mary Magdalene. I am saying that publicly and I have been for a number of years. I was born in 1979 here in Australia and my parents named me Mary Luck, which is why there’s often a little bit of confusion about what to call me but I’ve been Mary Magdalene for a lot longer than I’ve been known as Mary Luck.
I had a life in the first century and I was the wife of Jesus. I learnt and taught Divine Truth with him and then after his passing. I passed into the spirit world and had a life there, and just since 1979 – or I was conceived in 1978 – I have been back here on earth. I’m not claiming that I’ve had many lives before, that I’ve been Mary Magdalene and then had many other lives, just that I’ve had one continuous life, first on earth, then in the spirit world, and now back here on earth again.
I’m also not claiming to be the essence of Mary Magdalene that many women can embody. I’m saying that there’s one of me and that’s me. Elements of what is recorded in the Bible and what is known about me in folklore – there are parts of that that are true, but largely the story of my own life that has happened is pretty much unknown on earth.
I’m not claiming that everything that’s in the Bible is correct or that how I’m depicted in the Bible is necessarily correct, although parts of it are, and I’m not saying that the story attached to my name in certain sets of folklore is real; I’m just saying that I’m Mary Magdalene who is somewhat known historically, but largely unknown.
To answer this question I reckon we need to talk a bit about my views on spirituality before I met AJ.
Prior to that I’d always had a real interest in growth – I would have called it personal growth – and my dad was quite interested in New Age philosophies and spirituality for most of my life and I kind of shared that interest with him. We used to talk about things and I’d been to different workshops and a few meditation groups and things like that and it was always this real … it was quite a personal, private kind of fascination I suppose that I had for a long time, that I now recognise as a longing for God that got quite confused and suppressed because of my parents’ emotions of disillusionment towards religion and towards God.
Therefore, growing up as a child I didn’t really have a strong sense that longing for God was an accepted thing, I suppose, from an emotional perspective. I always harboured this interest in spirituality but I like to think I had a pragmatic view of it in that I didn’t really tolerate stuff that was what I would probably call ‘nambi pambi’ stuff that really didn’t seem relevant to day-to-day life.
My question was always, “How’s this practice or philosophy actually going to make me a better person, or the world a better place?” That was always my kind of litmus test for anything. I often found a lot of things lacking in terms of my own personal experience of them; I didn’t find that they were making me more loving and so I didn’t really investigate much further. So that’s a bit of background about my spiritual beliefs.
I also want to talk a bit about my ideas about reincarnation because that’s relevant to whether or not I considered my being anyone else. Obviously through this, all my life really, twenty years of talking to my dad about spirituality and meeting other people who were quite interested in spirituality in a New Age sense pretty much, I’d been exposed to lots of ideas about reincarnation. I knew people who believed quite strongly that they were reincarnated and I had been told that I’d had past lives. Not much of it really jelled with me because of my first test that I had on everything, which was, “Well how does believing in this stuff even help us? There seems to be so much mystery surrounding it!”
I could also feel that often people had a desire to make themselves more special or important, or to give themselves a sense of meaning that was lacking in other areas by believing that they had had a past life, so essentially I didn’t really believe in it because it didn’t really (laughs) … which is sort of ironic, if you think about it. (Laughs)
We should also be clear in this answer that just because I’m saying I’m Mary Magdalene, I’m not saying that I’m reincarnated in the sense that a lot of people now on the planet understand reincarnation to be. I’m not saying that I’m a soul that’s had a series of past lives; I’m saying I’ve had one life and this is just my second time back on earth; it’s quite extraordinary and not a very common thing that happens on earth.
Anyway, that was my background with spirituality and my ideas about reincarnation. I didn’t really give it much attention. I didn’t really believe in it but I also didn’t spend much time thinking or talking about it because I thought, “Well, how’s it relevant to my life now? Is it going to make me a more loving person? If it’s not then I don’t really want to spend time on it,” so I’d never really seriously considered that I was anyone other than Mary Luck. Even though, as we just talked about in the other question, there were all these soul things going on all the time, I didn’t really have a framework to understand that and I certainly didn’t consider it was because I was reincarnated in some way.
So then if we fast forward or rewind (laughs) to when I met AJ: I first met AJ about six years ago now, a little bit under six years. I’d been living overseas for five years doing different things. I was a volunteer in a refugee camp and I was working in Scotland; I was basically out exploring life and what I wanted my life to be about really.
I’d been in a relationship with someone and that had ended and because of that and some visa issues that I was having in the country I was in, I landed back home at my parents’ house. I was in a bit of a state of flux in that I was thinking, “What’s the next step?” I was already engaged in studying a master’s degree by correspondence. I was pretty sure that that was where I was headed, that it was just a question of which country I was going to go to next and work in basically.
Eloisa: The perfect plan. (Laughs)
Yes, I had it all sorted out. (Laughs)
Eloisa: Then what?
Yes, then what! (Laughs) I think it was New Year’s Eve or just before. My parents had this guy, who they’d been having come visit them in their home for about a year or so before this, giving free talks to people about spirituality. They said, “Oh you know, I’d be interested for you to come so you can see what we’ve been into,” and I said, “Oh, okay I’ll come.” I wasn’t really even that engaged with a desire to explore spirituality at that time because I felt I wanted to focus on my career. I was also dealing with the end of this relationship and so I wasn’t really looking for romance in any way.
So I found myself at a couple of talks that AJ gave in my parents’ home over the next couple of weeks and I was quite interested in what he had to say but I didn’t really think that he needed to be telling people that he was Jesus (laughs).I felt quite drawn to him but not really in a romantic way. I certainly didn’t consider that I was his soulmate; it didn’t even occur to me. I didn’t even analyse my response to him very much. I just thought, “I’d like to talk to that guy more,” and on one or two occasions I did try to talk to him more. He was very quiet (laughs) and I later found out that it was because he was a bit nervous about talking to me, but I was like, “What’s with this guy? He talks all the time to other people and I talk to him and he just sort of clams up.” (Laughs)
Eloisa: You didn’t make any correlation? (Laughs)
No, nothing. I had no consciousness of that really, that he really had an interest in me, but this is how little my self-analysis was going on at this point in my life. The story unfolds: in a few weeks he was leaving to go on an overseas trip and before he left he did the first ‘Secrets of the Universe’ video. It’s probably the first video that you saw, I’m not sure …?
Eloisa: No, parenting. (Laughs)
Parenting? Right! For lots of people it’s the first one they saw, the old one. I felt really strongly I wanted to go to that talk but because of a certain series of events my dad was really kind of weird about it. He was like, “Oh well, I’ll come with you!” and I was sort of thinking I wouldn’t mind going on my own. Anyway, then I was going to go with someone else and in the end I didn’t end up going. I didn’t go.
A couple of weeks later I sat down and I was talking to my parents about what I thought my next step would be in terms of my career and all of those sorts of things and they said, “Well look, while we’re talking, we should probably tell you something just because we know it and we feel strange that we know and you don’t know.” And I said “Oh okay.” I had no idea what they were going to say to me – or so I thought – and they said to me, “Well we just wanted to let you know, you know that AJ Miller guy, well he actually thinks that you’re his soulmate!’
And then I had a really weird reaction, Eloisa!
Eloisa: Yes, what did you do?
The first words out of my mouth were “I knew it!” and then I just sat there stunned because I thought, “I don’t know it, what am I saying? That’s weird!” I sat and I kind of looked dumbfounded at my parents and they looked at me!
Eloisa: Were they all dumbfounded too? (Laughs)
Well yes … yes. Then I immediately backtracked and went, “Oh that’s weird, no no, he probably thinks that about a lot of women,” and … and …
Eloisa: Minimised the whole thing? (Laughs)
Yes, and dad went, “Ah no, I don’t think so” and so then I was just sort of dumbfounded because I’d just given this response that I didn’t understand. I just sat there and my parents sat there and they said, “Alright then, well if you’d ever like to talk about it, ah, you know where we are!” and just sort of moved on with the day, probably had a cup of tea, I don’t know! (Laughs)
Eloisa: And you’re just like: this news?
Eloisa: This would be like some pretty big news I reckon?
Well it was a very strange thing because obviously I had that reaction and then I thought, “Aww …” I just immediately tried to minimise it and then I thought, “Why do I even care?” you know? “Who is this guy again, like what’s going on?” This whole thing just started up. This conflict between my brain and my soul commenced immediately where I just thought, “This is weird … and this guy …” and then after that I realised that this guy’s saying that he’s Jesus, you know, so what does that make me?
So in answer to the question which is, “When did I first consider I was Mary Magdalene?” probably sometime in the day or so after that conversation with my parents, the penny dropped that that’s who it would make me. That then kicked off a whole other set of feelings and actually I got quite fearful and angry about it very soon after that because I thought, “I don’t really want that. I don’t really like that my soul or my feelings are saying to me, “There’s something big here you need to pay attention to.” I don’t like that because actually I’d prefer to just forget about this and move on. I tried very hard to do that over the next couple of months and that didn’t really work out either.
We should stick to the question, which was, “When did I first consider it?” That’s when I first considered it but I didn’t feel that it was resolved at that point. I didn’t feel that I’d made peace with it; I didn’t really like it and I actually then kind of got it in my head that I needed to convince AJ that it wasn’t true. (Laughs)
That’s little bit further down the track, when I felt that I had to resolve it actually. I considered it and then I felt that I needed to resolve it some months afterwards because I couldn’t deny all this stuff that was going on.
Eloisa: Did you have an inkling that it might like … well obviously you had to consider it in the first place but did you, did you …? I know that you went, “No, I’m gonna convince him,” but obviously – well I don’t know; I feel that often when you want to convince … Did you feel that there was some element of truth in it to make that decision?
Eloisa: Right, and you just wanted it so badly to not be true?
Yes. There was just a huge conflict that started to happen inside of me, literally, when my parents – I had no idea what they were going to say – said it and I said “I knew it.” In that moment I felt that it was true and that freaked me out because I had no context for that; I had no desire for that really! I did not even feel, “Oh, that AJ Miller guy, I’d really like to pursue him;” there was none of that!
I was really caught up in a whole other series of things that were going on in my life and I kind of felt, for the first time in my life, that I knew what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Suddenly my parents were saying, “This spiritual guy that we’ve been listening to, well he thinks that you’re soulmates,” and I said, “I knew it,” and I felt it? Then I just went into complete backtrack from that point and it triggered a lot of fear inside of me, I thought, “Phoarrr … if I’m going to …” I couldn’t even really think it through.
If I considered that it was true, if I let myself feel the feeling that it was true, it kicked off a whole other set of fears like, “What does that mean? What’s our life going to be like? Do I even like that man? I don’t feel like anyone special or different, how can that be true?
“But hang on; I do feel different but I don’t really want to feel different and I really, really want to be accepted.” That’s probably been the biggest challenge for me since I met AJ, confronting this feeling that I wanted society to accept me. I really wanted to feel like I’m normal and I fit it and even more; if I’m even more honest, I wanted to feel like I was pretty hip and cool really! I wanted to feel like I had the world sorted out and I was pretty worldly and knowledgeable and all. All of that stuff started to get challenged as soon as I would consider that it could be true, and so then I would go into this whole intellectual rationalisation about how it couldn’t be true, and then I would find myself back at this feeling, “But it’s true.”
I would just be sitting at my parents’ house – they lived out of town; they have this beautiful garden – and I’d be sitting in the garden for hours just … I couldn’t talk to anyone about it, I couldn’t, because I couldn’t even really articulate what I was feeling. I was just sitting there staring into space feeling like, “Oh my god this is true, but I don’t understand how this can be true and how didn’t I know this and if it is true what does it really all mean and that can’t be true,” and all this kind of back-and-forth that really went on for years, which was really me, my fears, just trying to suppress the knowledge that I already had.
Eloisa: Yes. When you’re talking about it your soul on one hand is like, “Woohooo, she’s just realised …”
Eloisa: … and the other is like, “No no!” (Laughs)
Absolutely! It was like my soul was finally feeling relief but then it terrified me and so I actually got quite distressed. The more I kind of … it was sort of okay when I was alone but the more I tried to reconcile it with my life as it was then, with my friends, like how could I even talk to anyone about this? And with my career, and with my parents even, who were just freaked out about the whole idea and everything, I would just go into this sort of turmoil, and eventually, the more I avoided the release of that, the more distressing the feeling of the fears became, but that kind of happened over a year I would say.
Eloisa: Yes. There’s another thing: You said you wanted to be hip and cool and worldly and I always find that kind of ironic in itself because you’re probably one of the most worldly people on the planet right now, in the sense that you’ve lived for all this time and have all this beautiful knowledge and all these things and yet you still have that societal pressure I suppose; so yes, I mean that your desire to want it is just so strong.
Yes, and the world doesn’t think I’m worldly: the world thinks I’m a bit of a nutcase so you’re right in saying that. Yes, I probably do know a lot more about the world than a lot of people but the real feeling I had was that the world views me as worldly.
Eloisa: Thanks for clarifying that, yes interesting.
Good question: it’s a good question because a lot of the time, especially over the last five years – perhaps not as much now – but over that time I’ve often wandered around trying to convince myself that I don’t know that I am, that it’s still in question inside of me, that I have to sort it out and figure it out, but the truth is that I know that I am. The reason that I’ve been in that state for such a long time, of wanting to question it and wanting to doubt what I already feel inside of myself, is largely that the world views me saying that and me living that.
Obviously a lot of people think that my sanity is in question really, by saying that, or they think that I’m in a cult and that I’m somehow being hypnotised or mind-controlled or something weird is going on with me where I’m not in control of myself or my will or my ideas. That’s a pretty yucky feeling, to have others feel that about you and to feel that coming from other people. I haven’t wanted to really be myself fully because I’ve felt that that’s a yucky thing to feel and I didn’t want to experience that coming from others.
It’s also because a large number of people on the planet are Christians and they have a lot of ideas about who Jesus should be and who I am. The fact that my saying that I’m Mary Magdalene and I’m the wife of Jesus and, “Jesus actually didn’t die to save your sins, and a lot of what you believe to be Christian truth is not actually truth,” has always been pretty scary for me. I’ve felt that being open and honest, and saying that I’ve resolved this within myself would mean that people would attack us and vilify us and call us sacrilegious and all of these kinds of things. There’s another avoidance, where I’m wanting to avoid the disapproval of other people.
Also, in New Age philosophies there are a lot of people who believe that Mary Magdalene is the divine feminine and that she’s in everyone. Many women believe they are Mary Magdalene and I’ve had a lot of fear of confronting those women emotionally – not that I’ve ever gone and told them that they’re wrong or sought out confrontation with them, but just my saying these things publicly does cause women to contact me and tell me that I’m not, or that we all are, or that I’m wrong, and I still have a lot of feelings of my being inadequate in some way actually, that I should be better.
Eloisa: Because of the projections of others?
… and probably a feeling inside myself. I actually have been very much more connected to God and reflected a lot more of God’s Truth and God’s Love in my life before I came back to Earth and so there’s a big feeling inside me of, (sighs) “I’m not good enough” which is an error. It’s totally not the truth from God’s perspective but because I do have that feeling, it makes me want to hide from others and not say who I am and not just be completely frank and honest and exposed.
That’s a lot of background, I suppose, to this question, “How I know …” because for a long time I probably appeared as if I don’t know. I was very much invested in people having that opinion because it helped me avoid them having to confront all of their pre-conceptions about me, or all of their feelings towards my being definite. I wanted to avoid that and that’s me living in fear, and that didn’t have very good results. (Laughs)
Eloisa: Because you got it anyway?
Because I got it anyway in some cases! I also got other yucky projections which were, “Oh, that Mary she’s a bit wishy washy, not really sure,” and then I’ve received projections that AJ is controlling me, which isn’t the truth, or that I’m not very bright or those kinds of things, so I was being shown that I wasn’t really in a state of love about this situation. I was living in fear and avoiding just being really clear. So let’s get on to how I know.
Eloisa: Yes, awesome.
I suppose the short answer is: I know who I am because I remember my life in the first century and in the spirit world. I remember who I am because I remember events and relationships and things that happened. In that way I know, but I haven’t always allowed that knowledge I suppose – and we mentioned this briefly in the last question – because I have actually suppressed a lot of my emotions and my emotional experience since I reincarnated, back in 1979. I’ve tried to actively suppress some – well a lot of – my memories and emotions because they confronted fears within me.
We just spoke about some of the fears, but there was also the feeling of confusion about why I have memories that were not related to the life that I was involved in living. When I first met AJ … we talked a little bit earlier about how that happened, in that I met him at my parents’ home and eventually they said to me that he felt that we were soulmates and I had this really strange reaction, or I felt it was strange then, of just saying “I knew it,” straight away! That really shocked me in a lot of ways because I did feel that I knew it right then and I did a lot of emotional or psychological reasoning to try to get myself back from that point but in a way, in that moment I understood what I’d always kind of felt but I didn’t know why I felt it – it’s very difficult to explain! From the moment my parents told me what AJ felt about me, I didn’t actually make any contact with AJ for a number of months. I just sat with this thing and kept going, “Oh, it’s not a big deal, whatever, some guy thinks that you’re soulmates.”
You know, other people in spiritual circles had said to me before, “Oh wow, you have an amazing energy,” or, “Oh wow, you’re …” and I was just like, “Oh, whatever.” Sometimes I felt like the guys were a bit sleazy, you know, and I was like (shudders), “Oh okay, moving on!” (Laughs).
And this guy wasn’t sleazy, he wasn’t pursuing me, he hadn’t told me anything and I couldn’t really see any reason why I was giving this so much time and thought. Because I was staying at my parents’ house and I was between jobs, I just found myself sitting in their garden, just in this process that wasn’t even really thinking; it sort of felt strange but it was a feeling like, “Hey, pay attention, pay attention; you know about this,” and then my mind would kick in and go, “No I don’t, what are you talking about?”
It was this very strange thing that was happening to me and I knew after some weeks that I wasn’t going to be able to let this go. I kind of have that nature where I think that if there’s something I need to find out, I’m going to find out, I’m going to investigate and resolve it because I have this sort of – I don’t know if it’s a need to know but it’s a need to resolve things. I can’t leave them hanging or just push them to one side; once I’m piqued on something I’ve got to sort it out.
I’d been going through this process where I was just – it was such a strange thing that I couldn’t even really … I wasn’t really distressed at that point; I just felt like I needed to give attention to this thing and then I kept going, “What is the thing you need to give attention to?” And it kind of got circular up to this point where I said, “Right, I’m contacting this guy and just asking him what is this all about!!!” And so began our email exchange and that’s how we started to get to know each other – by email.
Sometime after that I joined AJ on an overseas trip and I began to just get to know him, and during that time I started to experience memories. Now that sounds like I’d never had any before but it’s not true. Because I now had a framework for what was actually going on, and because I was now allowing a new possibility inside of me, I came to understand that this had been happening all my life; I just hadn’t understood what it all meant. I’d had intense emotional experiences that seemed to be attached to things that hadn’t happened before but I’d shut them down really rapidly because I’d thought, “Well that’s not true,” or, “That doesn’t exist;” there was no context for me to put that emotion into. I didn’t have any sense or understanding that feeling emotions would help them leave you and so I thought, “Well I’m having an intense sadness that doesn’t seem to belong anywhere and I don’t really like that experience so I’m going to shut it down.”
That had happened at various times throughout my life before I met AJ; now meeting him I just began to entertain the idea that these were memories and that just brought a lot of things into clarity for me and so then I began to have a real sense of, “Well I know who I am because I remember who I am.” It was more than that – hello – it was also a feeling of … the best way I can describe it is like coming home to a sense that I’d had in childhood but I’d suppressed.
Eloisa: So you kind of knew who you were as a child in the sense that you‘d had some glimpses or feelings of who you really were as a kid?
Eloisa: That shut everything down as you got older?
Eloisa: And then you got to this point and went, “Oh wow, I kind of remember her!”
Eloisa … kind of thing?
Yes, yes, yes a lot like that.
Yes, that’s fine. That’s really exactly what it was like. It sort of felt like a homecoming but then I still had all these other feelings like, “Oh my gosh, what’s the world going to think about all of this!” which would then throw me into, “I don’t want the homecoming, I actually want to deny it again.” I cycled through this for years really but in answer to the question – which is really how I know who I am – it’s about the memories that I have but also the sense that I’ve always known that I’m someone other than just Mary Luck or that I’m other than Mary, that I have awareness and knowledge that didn’t come from this experience. And you know, it’s even confronting for me to say that out loud because I feel like, “Oh wow, I’m still working through that thing of how everyone’s going to perceive that,” but that’s the truth.
The other thing I would like to say, being Mary Magdalene and knowing that I’m Mary Magdalene, is that through all of this I’ve never had a strong attachment to the way that the world perceives Mary Magdalene in that I don’t feel like I’m filling the role or the identity that the world perceives Mary Magdalene to have. I feel like I have an experience and a life and the name that I had was Mary Magdalene. I don’t know how I can explain that better!
Eloisa: … whereas everyone’s got this idea of who Mary Magdalene is so they’ve created Mary Magdalene.
Yes. That’s not me.
Eloisa: That’s not you.
I don’t feel like I’m coming to claim who they think that is. That person’s not real; I’m real and I’m Mary Magdalene but I don’t feel like I have special importance. It’s just who I am. I don’t feel that I’m somehow more significant or have more that’s special about me because this is who I am. I just have a memory of being a kid and growing up and stuff happening and getting married and having kids of my own and passing into the spirit world and being with my soulmate and doing things we loved, teaching Divine Truth and sharing a life together.
Now we’re still doing that. We very much want to talk to the world about Divine Truth and to help people to grow in love and towards God but I don’t have a sense that I’m here to stake a claim on everyone else’s … I don’t want glory and I don’t really relate to the way the world sees Jesus and Mary Magdalene because that’s not who we are; that’s not how we have lived. I don’t have a sense that I’m here to steal some thunder or glory or something like that, which I think a lot of people believe about us.
Eloisa: Yes, knowing you, I personally don’t think you’re much like the stories I’ve heard of Mary Magdalene, and the same with Jesus actually.
Yes, but did we answer the question well? That’s important!
I know because of my memories. I also know because I have this deep sense of knowing: not that I’m Mary Magdalene as the world depicts it but that I have lived this life in the spirit world and I have had this relationship with God that’s enabled me to come back here.
Eloisa: Yes, yes. On another topic I’d really like to … like the senses that you have; I’d be pretty interested in talking to you about that as well.
Yes sure; it’s pretty difficult to describe.
Eloisa: That’s what I feel, so it’s like, “Oh, I’ll just put it out there.”
Eloisa: I think you answered it pretty well.
The final thing I would also say is that I don’t have some sense of martyrdom about it or that I have to take up this role. I don’t feel I have to take up any role! I just have to be myself and I don’t feel, “Oh, this is a hardship that I have to endure,” although I sometimes feel through certain emotions … I don’t think I’m doing the world a big favour. I don’t feel that I have an investment in this being true in any sense but I’ve really searched for (laughs), really done my homework on trying to figure out how this can’t be true. My biggest fear has always been, “Oh, I’m going to have to give up this struggle within myself and just accept that this is me,” and I feel that that’s where I’ve come to more recently. I’ve always known that it’s me, but I’ve fought it tooth and nail and I’ve tried to look for other reasons for the experience and the senses and the feeling that I have, because it has felt pretty scary and confronting.
Eloisa: When you are asked about your identity, you often seem to be very uncomfortable answering questions about it. From an outsider’s perspective it seems that you do not really believe you are Mary Magdalene. Why are you so uncomfortable if you know that you are Mary Magdalene?
Yes it’s true! For a long time I’ve appeared very uncomfortable talking about who I am, especially at seminars and in public, and the simplest answer to that question is that I’ve just been very afraid of how others will perceive me, which is sad really because in the end I’ve given them a perception of me that isn’t very honest. I’ve been suppressing who I am because I want to avoid judgement or criticism.
To give context to what’s been going on inside of me is that I’m aware that our saying that we’re Jesus and Mary Magdalene is very confronting for a lot of people. Many Christians have a lot of investment in Jesus being celibate, and we still receive emails and things from people, not only abusing us for making these claims but saying that Jesus would never touch someone like me – or these kinds of things – or would never touch a woman, basically.
So I’ve been fully aware that many religious people would find me speaking about who I am to be quite confronting to their own beliefs and that they might get really angry and some of them, not all of them, have done so. That’s been one reason why I’ve just wanted to shut down about the whole thing. I’m also aware that a lot of people in other spiritual circles have quite an investment in Mary Magdalene being a certain way, this being: quite confident, all knowing, very attractive, here to help people, to be the divine feminine, and all of these kinds of things. For me that’s been really scary because I don’t feel I am any of those things and so I’ve felt really exposed in public. I’ve felt like, “Wow, I’m not really that impressive and here I am saying who I am,” and I’ve wanted to just sort of hide behind the nearest piece of furniture (laughs) most of the time. Sometimes you can see me in talks almost behind the whiteboard because I haven’t really felt confident about who I am and I’ve also felt that people, not just Christians but other people, might attack me for not being impressive enough.
I also feel that a lot of people without spiritual beliefs basically have the feeling that I’ve lost it, in that I have some kind of psychiatric illness or that I’m somehow controlled by this cult leader who’s saying he’s Jesus. That’s really not a very nice feeling either, to have people present you with. And since I met AJ, my immediate family have basically said that they can’t accept our life, who we are or even just agree to disagree about our beliefs, and they’ve rejected us. They’ve been really nasty to AJ and me; they’ve called us names, they’ve abused us, they’ve told me I’m throwing my life away, they’ve told me that basically I’ve lost it and I’ve gone crazy.
That all happened before I even attended a public seminar with AJ, so for me, if my own family was going to do that, how was the world going to respond? That really made me not very confident in public talking about these things. My fear, that’s what was dominating the way I was communicating, was such that I just felt, “Oh, how’s everyone going to cope with this, how’s everyone going to cope with this?” and I would just clam up and get really shaky, and basically look flaky.
To be very honest, I’m aware that I’ve looked really uncertain, unsure, flaky. Often I’ve really been almost passive-aggressive with AJ while he’s talking about who he is because its scaring me so much. I’m aware that people can see that; even if they don’t know exactly what’s going on they can see that there’s something not right. It makes it appear like I’m not very certain and in a way I was invested in that really because it helped me avoid other people feeling other things towards me like: I was claiming glory or I was claiming to be special or I did think I was all that or I did want to ruffle their feathers or I did want to confront them. None of those things are true, but I didn’t want anyone to even consider that that might be true about me or to feel that towards me.
I also know that historically there have been men on earth who’ve claimed to be Jesus who aren’t Jesus who have done really horrible things to other people and so I was aware that by us saying who we are, people would naturally start to be suspicious – or maybe it’s not ‘naturally,’ but commonly they would be suspicious.
Many people base their reactions to new things on what’s happened in the past with old things so our saying that we’re Jesus and Mary Magdalene meant to me that most people would view what had happened in the past and project that onto us. That does happen quite a bit and I simply wasn’t humble enough to experience that, to just stay true to myself and let other people have their own experience and their own opinions. I feel more in that place now. I feel it’s okay for people to believe what they want to believe about us; it doesn’t make it true and actually I’m more able to experience any grief or fear that I have about what they might say or want to do to us as a result of it.
I wouldn’t say that I’m completely comfortable yet, talking about who I am in every situation. I still have fears come up. I still don’t feel like I want to share with someone sometimes, if they’re not really believing me or even open to the idea, but I’m challenging that more now. I feel like at least I’ve come to a sense of some peace inside of myself, of desiring to be myself no matter how others feel about that.
There’s still work to go as many people will see – even the way I speak in seminars. Often I’m not speaking as confidently as I perhaps feel about the topic because I’m still concerned about how I’m being viewed by others. I still want to rely on AJ sometimes because he’s dealt with a lot of these issues; he’s very confident and he’s okay to receive projections or emotions from people that are perhaps not kind or comfortable and still continue to be himself.
For me, I’m still a work in progress on that issue. In addressing your question: in the past I was really not coping with it, in terms of my not being willing to just let other people have their experience and me have mine and still be confidently myself. I would be flaky and indirect, nonspecific, all these things that make people think, “Oh gee, she really doesn’t know what’s going on there!” And a lot of people said, “You know, it’s all AJ feeding her things,” and that’s very much not the case.
I was very strict with AJ if you like, when we first met, and told him that I didn’t want him to talk to me about any of his memories, that I wasn’t going to necessarily believe anything that he believed, that I had to have my own experience. I was actually quite controlling of him in a way but he respected that very much and he’s never even made it a condition of our relationship that I share his beliefs about things but I certainly do share his beliefs on just about everything actually.
Well, my memories are varied and diverse. By this question we’re really meaning memories of my first century life and life in the spirit world aren’t we?
Eloisa: First century, yes.
I experience those memories in a slightly different way to how I experience memories of things that have happened in the last thirty-four years, nearly thirty-five years, that I’ve been back here on earth. When I have memories from the first century or in the spirit world I have all of the emotions associated with that memory. I understand the event and the people involved in the event and what was happening for me during the event or events but I don’t have a visual depiction; I don’t have a scene in my head and I can’t recall visual things about it, or smells or tastes.
It is just as real as if I’m having a memory of something that’s happened to me in the last thirty-four years but in those memories I often have a smell or a taste or a scene or a colour or something that I associate with, or that I remember from, that event happening as well as the emotions of what was going on during that time. The basis of all of our memories is actually emotional.
Eloisa: I’m kind of, sort of wanting to, hoping that? Can I clarify now?
Sure. I’m going to expand some more now.
Eloisa: Okay, carry on!
The basis of all of our memories and how we remember things is actually through our emotions and that’s why, for a lot of us, we don’t have clear memories of our childhood because we’ve suppressed the emotions in our childhood. When we open up emotionally we suddenly seem to have all these new memories. They’re memories of things that happened in our childhood that before then we couldn’t remember well.
My first century memories and memories of things that happened in the spirit world and the memories of things that have happened to me on earth in the last thirty-four years, their basis is all emotional. However, there is this distinction that I was telling you about and that is that with the ones that I had in the spirit world, and on earth in the first century, I had a different physical body when I was on earth, and physical and spirit body when I went into the spirit world than I have now.
The memories were stored in my soul. Here back on earth the memories are still stored in my soul but I have other ways, other tools if you like, of remembering. They are my spirit body’s senses and mind and the brain in this body and so that’s why I can have visual and sensory memories – because the vision and all of the senses are stored in our spirit body’s mind and body. With the memories of the last thirty-four years I have these other sensory memories, if you like, along with the emotions. For the time in the spirit world and on earth before then, I just have the emotions because I had a different spirit body and physical body. Maybe I can expand even further?
Eloisa: Yes, it’s just … obviously I’ve got no understanding of the reincarnation process and I don’t know if I’m going to even understand when you explain, to be honest. I can identify with the memories that you talk about in your last thirty years but the soul memories that’s … well I’m kind of fascinated and at the same time not …I’m finding it hard to have anything tangible to connect with. Well I suppose I can’t because there’s nothing like it really, is there?
Well let me give … let’s have a tangible example …
Eloisa: Okay, that would be great.
… of being hit by a bus.
Eloisa: Okay (laughs). You like this one!
It’s pretty extreme, yes! I’ve given this example to people before because I hope it demonstrates a little bit more of what I’m talking about. If I’d been hit by a bus in the last thirty-four years, if I were fully allowing all of my emotions I would have, when I recall that event I would be able to remember standing on the curb, whether it was sunny, if I could feel the sun or the wind; I’d remember those sensory things and I might remember things that were going on in my head. I might have been distracted or upset about something. I’d remember stepping out onto the road and then I might remember the screech of brakes; I’d hear that, I remember the sound of that, the feeling of impact on my physical body, of something really large hitting me unexpectedly, the shock associated with the emotion, the physical pain associated with that, the feeling of helplessness maybe and everything that happened from then on. I would have sight, sound, smells, I might smell the asphalt as I hit it, the blood maybe, people coming over, the sound of mobile phones, I might have all kinds of different memories that are associated with this bus accident.
Now say I’d been hit by a bus – even though there weren’t buses in the first century. (Laughs) If I were now here back on earth remembering that event, I would have the sense that I was on a curb. I wouldn’t have any visual for that, I wouldn’t have a scene in my head of what that curb looked like or how the air felt or any of those things but I would know I was on the curb, and that I was feeling distracted and upset about something. I would have the emotional sense of where I was and what I was feeling and then as I stepped off the curb I wouldn’t necessarily have any of the sounds; I wouldn’t have any sounds of the bus screeching but I would feel the fear and the sudden shock of what’s happened. I would know that a bus has hit me even though I can’t see it or hear it but with the feelings, I have the knowledge that it’s happened.
Then I would feel the pain still, and the grief and the powerlessness and the sense that people are coming to help me and all of these things. I don’t have a visual, I don’t have the smell, I don’t have the sounds but it’s as real as if it happened in this last thirty-four years, in fact it’s incredibly intense because the only way to access these memories is to be open emotionally. Then the emotions are overwhelming and it’s a very intense sense of something that has happened and how I felt throughout it.
Eloisa: And you can obviously feel the other people as well because you know what those people felt like.
Yes, yes. It’s one of the ways that I know who my soulmate is as well, because I remember experiences with him from a soul … like, an emotional perspective, the knowledge that he was there, the knowledge of things that have happened.
Obviously I didn’t get hit by a bus in the first century and most of the things that did happen to me in first century life have not happened to me in the last thirty-four years, which in itself is quite validating in that I know I’m not confusing something that’s happened in the last thirty-four years with another experience. At the same time its very disconcerting when you start allowing this because you feel like. “Wow, this thing really happened, I know, but it didn’t happen in the last thirty-four years and this is where often this psychological … the mind wants to dominate and say that can’t be real and the soul is screaming, “Well it is!”
Eloisa: Yes, it’s a real journey, hey, to actually just accept your soul rather than your mind and believe that.
Definitely, for all of us, but especially in the case of the fourteen of us who have returned to earth because there is this added psychological element to it. With your memories you know, “This is Eloisa’s life,” and your mind is not going to protest at that, because your mind’s been with your soul that whole time. For me this mind has not been with this soul the whole time. The mind – which is very much lauded on the planet at the moment, that we should listen to the mind – is trying to dominate the soul all the time and say, “That can’t be real, that can’t be real,” but the soul knows it is.
The soul is much more powerful than the mind and that’s why it’s exhausting trying to dominate your experience and your emotions with your mind, because the soul is much more … it’s the controller of everything really, in our experience.
Eloisa: Yes it’s pretty fascinating, pretty amazing!
Eloisa: Have you considered that you believe you are Mary Magdalene because of spirit influence? You claim that you are Mary Magdalene. Is it possible that you are channelling another spirit who claims she is Mary Magdalene and you are attributing that connection to your identity?
This is a common question that I’ve received over the years. The answer is, “Yes, I have considered that maybe a spirit is influencing me into believing that I’m someone that I’m not, maybe that the experiences that I was having could somehow be attributed to a spirit; I’ve certainly considered that. I’ve resolved that it’s not true for a number of reasons. The first is that I am a spirit medium and I can differentiate between the emotions of a spirit and my own emotions and as we’ve discussed in previous questions a lot of my knowledge of who I am comes from the experience of my emotions, the allowance of my emotions and my memories associated with them. I’ve had these experiences that are emotional; I also have this deep sense that I am Mary Magdalene. I’ve considered whether a spirit could be giving me these emotions or this sense in some way.
The first thing is that I have come to have a very strong sense of when I’m feeling my own emotions and when I’m feeling a spirit’s emotions. Just for the benefit of the audience, it is very common for spirits to influence people on earth, especially in certain situations when we don’t want to feel a feeling of fear or sadness. Sometimes a spirit can come and influence us for a matter of minutes into a state of rage or shutdown or something; that does happen. That has happened to me and I do understand the difference between what it’s like to have the feeling of the influence of the spirit and a spirit’s emotions, and my own experience. That’s the first part of the answer.
I’ve also looked at things from a more pragmatic or logical perspective because I thought, “Well you know, maybe I’m not so fool proof.” I’ve had to come to a sense of surety about these things inside of myself through experience; maybe that’s not really satisfactory because, as I’ve said earlier, I was really shopping for reasons why I wasn’t Mary Magdalene.
Eloisa: So you need double proof!
Yes, double proof! I looked at the idea that, “Well, if a spirit did come and over-cloak me then people would have observed a very rapid change in my persona; I would have been Mary Luck one day and then suddenly completely different and full of surety about who I am. This is what we see with other people who become over-cloaked and believe that they’re someone else. There’s often a rapid, immediate and dramatic change in their personality, in the way that they behave and the things that they say and do, and we haven’t seen that in me; that hasn’t happened.
It’s only been through my developing more and more humility that I think that people are now able to observe some growth in me and some changes in my demeanour. That is actually the result of my growing in humility and some truth and some love, and so there’s a gradual process occurring before people’s eyes, not an immediate one. There’s also been this aspect of me trying to rationalise my way out of what I already believe to be true, which is not very common for people who are over-cloaked. Usually they gain surety and that’s it, and they sort of remain this static person while that spirit is with them.
The other thing within that is that if I were just having a lot of emotional experiences that were not my own but from a spirit, then because of the way the soul is constructed that wouldn’t help the spirit to grow and it wouldn’t help me to grow because each person has to experience and release their own emotions for themselves for them to be free of the emotions – to grow.
If I were in some kind of a relationship with a spirit and they were giving me emotions or experiences then I wouldn’t be resolving things, and I am resolving things. We are seeing a growth in me, be it sometimes is quite gradual and slow. (Laughs) There are changes happening and I also feel more connected to myself and more connected to God when I experience myself and my emotions, and that wouldn’t be able to occur if it was a spirit with me.
To expand on this even further, if I was being influenced by a spirit in the spirit world who was in a low condition of love and they wanted some attention or glory or power or they wanted to avoid themselves in some way by influencing me here on earth to say and believe that I’m Mary Magdalene, then because of the way the different Laws of God operate upon my soul and that spirit’s soul you would actually be seeing a degradation in my condition and their condition. If they were influencing me and degrading in condition you would actually be seeing someone who was becoming more nasty, more narcissistic, more selfish, more unhappy and I actually think we’re seeing the reverse.
Eloisa: I can vouch that we’re seeing the reverse.
The last possibility is if I wasn’t Mary Magdalene and I was being influenced by a spirit who is Mary Magdalene – that’s a hypothetical idea – and that Mary Magdalene is in a high condition of love and she came along and influenced me, perhaps to do some good or something in the world. However, as soon as they saw that I was saying that I was Mary Magdalene and I wasn’t then they would cease to influence me. So I feel very confident that that exhausts all the possibilities for how a spirit could be influencing me and it also shows that it can’t really be the case.
There’s also the aspect that when I’m allowing myself and allowing my memories I feel in connection with God. When I suppress those things I don’t feel in connection with God and when I allow them I do. For me that’s probably the biggest proof that a spirit is not involved in this experience, because God wouldn’t enter into an experience where a spirit is influencing someone to believe something that’s not true. The way we connect with God is through truth really, through an acceptance or an allowance of truth in that moment, and so me having this experience and experiencing more and more of God the more and more I allow, tells me definitively that it’s not a spirit-influenced experience.
Eloisa: Have you considered that you believe that you are Mary Magdalene because of false memory syndrome or mind control?
I’ve examined the issues related to false memory or the experiences of people on earth who’ve had what’s now considered to be false memory syndrome and also mind control, and I have to say that I’ve never really entertained this as a possibility for me. A lot of people seem to be very concerned that I have been somehow mind-controlled or have false memories but after examining what has happened on earth with regards to false memory and mind control, I’m really confident that those things haven’t happened to me and are not happening to me.
I can elaborate a little bit more. People who experience false memories have usually been placed in a state of hypnosis or some kind of guided imagery or meditation. It’s often happened in the context of a therapeutic situation with a counsellor or a psychologist or someone, and the person has suddenly “recovered,” and I put that in inverted commas, a memory of something quite traumatic or momentous that’s happened in their past that prior to that point they hadn’t had any recollection or feelings about.
The truth of what’s actually happening in those cases is that people are being influenced by spirits. They’re being given the experiences of spirits from the spirits. Spirits are attracted through this process and usually the person on earth has a desire to avoid something within themselves and this is what allows this interaction to happen with the spirit. Often the person on earth is avoiding some other pain. Sometimes they’re avoiding a sense of feeling overlooked, sometimes they have a desire for attention or a desire to distract themselves from some other pain. Because they have that feeling they become open to a spirit coming along and giving them some of the spirit’s experience of what happened to them on earth. It’s a very emotional experience for that person on earth and they then think, “Oh this is a memory that I’ve had.”
The way that this cannot have happened to me is that firstly I’ve never been hypnotised. I’m really crap at meditation and guided imagery. I would always be lying there going, “Oh, imagine the white gate” and it was a really hard thing for me to do and, because of the level of fears inside of me, I also have a really strong desire to stay in control of my body. I’ve always been really cautious about what’s happening around me. Even as a medium I find it difficult to give a spirit as much control of my body that it’s a complete trance mediumship; I very much want to be in control and I’m not very open to suggestions.
So in that example alone, I’ve never actually been hypnotised or placed myself in a situation where things can be suggested to me. AJ and I don’t meditate; we don’t even discuss the memories that I’ve had before I’ve had them and even for some time after sometimes, so there hasn’t ever been this kind of suggestive process where I’m sort of allowing myself to open up to things without a conscious knowledge of what’s going on around me.
Also, as I’ve mentioned, things that commonly happen with people who have this false memory syndrome – they’re usually trying to avoid something else that’s occurring in their life, something that has actually happened to them that they feel afraid of or feel pain about or uncomfortable about or they don’t want to feel some aspect of their life, so with this memory they’re open to having another experience almost to distract them or to have some other deeper sort of addictive desire met within them. That’s how they manifest this experience.
For AJ and myself and what we advocate to everyone is that we deal with everything in our life that’s happened. For myself in this process of now growing again towards God, developing myself in love, I’m aiming to deal not only with the emotions associated with the memories of my first century life and life in the spirit world but all of the things that have happened in the last thirty-four years, so there’s no sense of avoiding this life by distracting myself with some other memories or emotions. I’ve certainly spent a lot of time in the last five years dealing with dynamics in my childhood with my family and various other things socially and how I feel about the world I’m in right now and things that have happened, so there’s no sense that this experience is distracting me from some other deeper pain or fulfilling some desire for attention or glory because while we may attract some level of attention it is certainly not very glorified; a lot of people have quite negative feelings about us and because I’m being honest about this experience that I’m having.
In that regard, I feel that false memory syndrome … I’ve never even entertained it as an idea of something that might be happening to me. AJ has never suggested anything to me and as I mentioned in a previous answer I’ve been pretty strict on him about what I will and won’t talk to him about, especially in the beginning when we first met where I was feeling somewhat, well I was feeling very, resistive to this idea. I didn’t ever want there to be a shadow of a doubt inside of me that something could have been suggested to me. I wanted to be sure of myself and my own experience and I do feel that now and that’s a lot, partly because I just told him, “I don’t want you to even talk to me about what you remember of our life together, if we even had a life together.’ Yes, those are the feelings that I had then.
Eloisa: … to find out for yourself for real.
With regard to mind control, this is also something that I often get accused of: of being controlled by AJ, that somehow he’s found some chink in my subconscious that has made me somehow invested in believing this or maintaining a relationship with him and that that’s a condition of our relationship – that I believe that I’m Mary Magdalene – or various other things that people accuse me of. A lot of times people don’t even really elaborate; they just say, “Oh, you’re controlled,” and to be honest, I think it’s a very very convenient way for them to dismiss me. They just say, “Oh, she’s just someone without a mind of her own, and she’s controlled by this charismatic leader and therefore we don’t have to listen to anything that she says or take any notice of her experience.”
Eloisa: It’s pretty harsh actually.
It is pretty harsh actually, it is, yes, but it’s not true.
Eloisa: No, I agree.
There are a fair few things I could say about it. From what I’ve read about it, what typically happens to people who are mind-controlled, is that they often have a feeling that love or approval from the person who’s doing the controlling is conditional on them believing a certain set of things or feeling a certain way about them. Now that is definitely not the case between AJ and me. I’ve actually had a lot of quite negative feelings towards him throughout the last five years because a lot of my fears were being brought up by this experience and I wanted someone to blame. I blamed him a lot. I was quite harsh to him on countless occasions really, if I’m very honest. I was critical of the way he taught, of the way he looked, of the way he lived his life; I tried to find holes in everything because I just wanted to avoid the pain and fear that was being exposed within myself through this set of circumstances. Throughout all of that he never wavered in his love for me. He has said to me on many occasions that if I don’t want to be with him that’s okay with him, and he is really okay with that now. I know that he would go on teaching Divine Truth though inside of him he’s had some sadness at times when I’ve said that I don’t want to be with him because that has happened on numerous occasions throughout our relationship.
He’s had sadness to feel but he’s never made that sadness my problem or tried to make me feel guilty about that, and now I feel he’s reached a point where he wouldn’t even really be sad. He’d still desire to be with me but it’s not going to stop him going for what he wants and look, he views me as his partner, as his lover, as his soulmate, not as someone who is subservient to him and he doesn’t promote me feeling subservient. Him. I certainly don’t think that he’s God or all-knowing or all-perfect or all-powerful, I don’t have any of those feelings. A lot of people who find themselves in situations where they are controlled in some way have often given over their sense of reasoning, what they think, working through things for themselves, and have then decided that the person in charge is the person with all knowledge and that they have none and they have no ability to gain any.
Now for myself I know that all Truth comes from God, not from AJ. He can reflect more Truth right now and I listen to him a lot but if I don’t agree with him I tell him. He knows that and he respects that about me actually; he encourages me to have my own experience and to resolve things for myself. In fact there have been many times where he’s said, “Actually, you’re agreeing with me, you’re giving me what I call lip service; you’re saying ‘yes’ when you haven’t actually sorted this out emotionally for yourself.” … whatever that may have been – a decision to do something, a desire, or a feeling about the way we were going to live our life or what we were going to do.
There have been times when I’ve just said, “Yes, yes alright” and he’s said, “I can’t do that because you are not in agreement with me from an emotional perspective, and you don’t have to be, so we won’t do that thing,” which is very different from someone holding someone else to ransom and saying, “Unless you agree with me, all bets are off,” or “Our life’s over,” or “You have to … “ or “I’m better!” I don’t have any of those feelings in our relationship. I feel very confident that I’m not being mind-controlled and I’ve never felt that. AJ’s a very humble, gentle person who’s firm for what he knows and what he believes but he’s never made my agreement with him or my worship of him – he would find me worshipping him quite abhorrent – he’s never made my agreement with a certain set of rules or standards or anything conditional on his love for me.
In addition, I don’t have a sense and he doesn’t have a sense that I’m going to hell or I’m going to a bad place or a terrible disaster will happen if I don’t comply with something. This is another way that many people are controlled. They’re told, “Unless you do this thing very, very bad things are going to happen to you or your family or you’ll be in hell forever or your level of ascension will … “ – whatever! There are horrible kinds of things that I’ve been told, that other people have been told, in various different what I would classify as cults, where women have been told that they need to sleep with a certain number of men otherwise they’re displaying difficulties in their spirituality and they can’t reach the next level. I would classify that as severe manipulation and control of others. My life does not look anything like that.
I’m really well loved and I have my own relationship with God. I know that God’s loving and that God never demands sacrifice from us or demands that we deny ourselves in order to have some greater thing happen to us; in fact the only way to have great things happen to us is to be ourselves and heal ourselves and that’s what AJ and I advocate for everyone around us, and it’s no different within our relationship.
Eloisa: It’s cool. I’m just thinking with the mind control, it’s just fascinating in the sense that our families are the ones who are so mind-controlling with the threats and the whatever and they’re telling us they love us the most and yet you’re accused of being mind-controlled by someone who’s doing the complete opposite with no threats whatsoever!
Yes, it’s true. It’s very common in family relationships and in a lot of organised religions as well, that people are told, “Unless you meet a certain set of standards or requirements,” or “Unless you do this for me on my birthday,” or “Unless you come home for Christmas,” or whatever, then there’s a threat and that is actually very controlling behaviour. “I won’t love you; you’ll go to hell; this shows you’re a bad person;” all of these things, and many other ways, are actually ways that we are controlled by society and our family.
Actually myself and Jesus, or AJ as he’s called now, we want to expose those things as unloving because God doesn’t want to control us. God wants us to use our will because we want to, not because we’re afraid. God wants us to use our will in a loving direction because we’re motivated by love within us and not fear. It’s impossible, in fact, to use our will in a loving direction if we’re motivated by fear and this is why there is so much unhappiness on the planet actually, because a lot of people have reverted to using threats and various other emotional techniques to control themselves and others and the way the world operates. Because of that, because that’s actually compelling people to use their will through fear, we end up with a lot of unhappy people, both the people who do the threatening and the people who comply with the threats. It’s not possible that I’m being mind-controlled because I’m actually living with someone who’s passionate about ending control on the planet and empowering people through love.
Eloisa: That’s pretty cool hey, pretty cool.
Yes, yes it is.
Eloisa: Also, is it pretty confronting, coming from a family in the last thirty years where, from my understanding, what I’ve read, what you post on the internet, they are very controlling and manipulative and whatever, and suddenly to have someone who’s expecting nothing from you? I mean, that’s going to be quite challenging?
Yes, definitely. If we can give a bit of context here about my family: especially from the time that I met AJ, this sort of exposed a lot of their beliefs about love that aren’t loving, and how a family should behave, which is not loving in that they felt that I should deny myself and my own experience and my own relationship in order to make them more comfortable, and that was a pretty yucky thing to happen. They were very afraid and upset but they still chose to use their will in a way that was damaging to me; it was hurtful to me. It was also quite unjust towards AJ because, as you said, he wasn’t trying to control anyone. He was just being himself, being truthful. I decided that I wanted to be with him and my family told me outright that they couldn’t cope with that and that he was evil, which was just based on me actually making a decision for myself that did not agree with them. That’s the first time in my life where I’d really made a stand for something that my parents did not agree with. You know, I think a lot of people go through this process with their family, perhaps not their daughter meeting Jesus, but a lot of us get to a point in our lives where we realise, “I need to have a life that does not necessarily match how my parents live their life,” or “I have different beliefs from my parents and I’m going to choose a different journey or route for my life.”
Some people don’t. Some people just live in the same way that their parents have lived but then there are many others who reach a point where they say, “I’m going to do something different with my life.” Some parents respond with encouragement: they say, “Okay that’s different, it might challenge me a bit but great, it’s your life.”
Sadly, other parents do what my parents have done and that is to say, “I can’t accept that, and you’re wrong, and you’re bad,” and that’s been really sad for me. It was very confronting because I did realise how many emotional kind of contracts, I’m going to call it contracts, there were in my family, where I did a certain set of things and they did a certain set of things for me so I was quite emotionally dependent upon on my parents when I met AJ. I wanted them to reassure me about a lot of things, that I was a good daughter in ways that they deemed were good, and so breaking away from that – that’s just one aspect of how many contracts there were – there was a lot of what I would call, “I’ll give you this and you give me that,” and none of that is love because it’s all about barter.
So then I met AJ. He’s a man who does not do barter; he doesn’t want barter! If he finds me … many, many times in the beginning of our relationship I wanted barter because it made me feel secure. “If I can give you something and then you give me something, I don’t feel vulnerable or exposed. I feel I have a role, I feel there is security and safety and assurance of how this relationship’s going to work.” AJ didn’t want any of that. He found it quite oppressive and also sort of repulsive, not that he ever found me repulsive, but he would say, “Babe I don’t want to do that with you; you don’t want to be doing what you’re doing for me right now and you’re only doing it because you think you have to in order to get my love. I love you; you don’t have to do that!”
That was very confronting for me. It probably confronted the feelings of the lack of love that there are in barter, and many times I actually got quite angry as well because I felt vulnerable. AJ is a man who can do everything for himself and I wanted a man who needed me for a few things because otherwise what was my importance in his life? How would he need me? How would I feel wanted?
That’s all because I was more attuned with barter than I was with open-hearted relating in a relationship. He’s giving me all of this love and attention and approval but I felt uncomfortable receiving it and certainly reciprocating it because it felt very exposed. There was no way of securing what was going on; there was no way to say, “He needs me; he’s not going to leave me because I do this thing for him.”
Eloisa: Yes, I can recognise many of those things in myself.
Eloisa: No, thank you for that.
Not really. It’s been suggested to me but I feel very confident that I am Mary Magdalene, though not as a result of suggestion. There are a fair few reasons for that: firstly, as I’ve mentioned to you I think in previous questions we’ve filmed today, when I met AJ I was very vigilant about this possibility. I didn’t want to ever have to feel that maybe this has all occurred to me through the power of suggestion so one of the very first things that I said to him was, “Okay, if I’m going to be talking to you and just exploring this thing that I can’t ignore anymore then I don’t want you to talk to me about any memory that you have – none whatsoever. I don’t want you to talk to me about the kind of person you felt I was in the first century, things that you feel happened to me in the first century, any memory that you have about what happened between us in the first century, any memory of what happened to you in the first century. I don’t want to know any of it because if I’m going to have an experience I want to know that it’s come from me,” and he honoured that request of mine.
Eloisa: That’s pretty amazing!
It is pretty amazing! I think he understood that for me it was a really important thing that I was able to have my own experience so he honoured that until a time some years ago where I said to him – after I had enough of my own experiences – “I’m okay with that now!” (Laughs)
Eloisa: “You can tell me now”!
Yes, and we’ve never ever sat down and gone, “Right, this is the story of my life and this is the story of your life;” that’s not how this happens for us. I’ve experienced a lot of memories and through that experience I’ve found when I’ve spoken to him about those things that we’ve had the same experience. He’s experienced these memories before and he knows what’s happened and he might have even spoken to other people that I don’t know about them, and I’ve had these experiences and we find that these memories meet.
A lot of my memories are from the time before I met him and after he passed in the first century, but there’s also a multitude of memories of when we were together. I’ve found that even though we’ve never talked about these things, when I’ve had those experiences and allowed them again, our experiences matched up, but he’s certainly never suggested anything to me about any of that.
I also think that in order for someone to be open to suggestion they have to actually have an investment in wanting that suggestion to be true. Like, if I was going to suggest something to you and you had no desire for it to be true or it hadn’t actually happened then you would be able to dismiss it really easily. For me to accept that I’m Mary Magdalene based purely on suggestion I would have to have some feeling that I would actually like to be Mary Magdalene, and that’s not really the case.
Eloisa: And you’ve confirmed that in these interviews!
Yes, yes I’ve talked about that before. I really didn’t have any feeling that I wanted to … I felt that accepting who I am and accepting who AJ is and living out our lives based on who we really are, not who the world would like us to be would mean ostracism, ridicule, rejection, possibly even violence so I wasn’t invested in this suggestion at all. Probably the only people who really suggested it to me – if you could even say that, and they’d be mortified that I said this – would be my parents in that they just said, “Oh, AJ Miller believes that you’re soulmates.” (Laughs)
Eloisa: (Laughs) Unwittingly.
Unwittingly! No, they certainly didn’t … oh I don’t know if they believe it or not but there was no suggestion, and even if that was a suggestion I didn’t really have any desire for it to be true. It completely freaked me out, as I said. Even though I had this strong sense that it was true, I really didn’t want it to be so no, I don’t feel anything’s been suggested to me.
The other thing to say about suggestion is that, while AJ didn’t suggest anything to me about my memories, there’s also no other suggestion, if you like, of what I experienced, or the life that I have a memory of, anywhere else on the planet at the moment. There’s no account of Mary Magdalene’s life that marries with what I know was/is my life so there’s no way that I might have read a book that suggested to me what I’m experiencing. You know, some interviewers say to us, “Oh, so the Da Vinci code got it right,” (laughs) just because we’re saying we’re Jesus and Mary Magdalene and we were married in the first century. I think, “Oh well, on that one point,” but there’s a lot of life that we lived on earth and in the spirit world and that’s not recorded anywhere on the planet at this point. There are elements of some details, some minor details that are recorded in the Bible, especially regarding my life – it’s a little bit different for Jesus’ life – but for me there are some elements of truth in some things that are written and that I had never read, and I still haven’t read most of them, but none of those things are an accurate depiction or an accurate account of my memories. Therefore it’s impossible that I’ve read something or been exposed to something which has suggested these memories or this experience to me of who I am.
Eloisa: People often accuse AJ of claiming, and convincing you, that you are Mary Magdalene because you’re young and pretty. How do you respond to these accusations?
There’s a lot I’d like to say about this because people will often cast this sort of aspersion. I feel it’s an aspersion on AJ’s character basically. Sometimes interviewers do it in a cheeky kind of a way, “Oh it’s very convenient though isn’t it, that Mary’s young and pretty.” I often feel afterwards that there is so much that I wanted to say in that moment but it’s a moment and it’s gone so it’s great that we have the opportunity here to talk more about it.
The first thing I’d say is that I don’t feel particularly young and pretty myself (laughs) so I don’t feel that he’s hit the lottery in terms of attractiveness or even youth. I’m thirty-five in a couple of months so I wouldn’t say that I’m particularly young, though younger than a lot of people – but I sort of feel like I’m not just thirty-five; I suppose I feel that I have had a long life and so I don’t feel particularly young.
Let’s get on to how I would respond to this accusation. That is to say, firstly, that AJ hasn’t really had it that easy, I suppose, since he met me. He didn’t wander up to me and say, “Oh you’re Mary Magdalene,” whereupon and I fell into his arms and said, “This is wonderful and let’s please go and have lots of sex!” (Laughs)
Eloisa: It wasn’t a movie? (Laughs)
No it wasn’t the movies or anything resembling it except maybe a little bit like a horror movie? (Laughs)
Eloisa: Bit extreme? (Laughs)
Bit extreme maybe. But let’s explain a bit more. When I met AJ I was really confronted about this idea of him being Jesus, me being Mary Magdalene, in a public way. I felt really afraid about it; now that I started to allow all these emotions that I’d been suppressing all my life, I felt really confronted about what was coming up. I was angry for the first time in my life really, and I found that really disturbing and distressing. “What’s going on?” I was feeling a lot of things, that I could feel were already inside of me. I had some sense of wanting to grow but growing this way seemed very confronting. Also, as we’ve mentioned in previous questions, the way AJ wanted to have a relationship with me was based on no expectations, no barter, no co-dependency, just love and desire, and for me that was really confronting as well. I felt vulnerable; there was no way I could manipulate this man, and all he wanted to do was love me but that felt really confronting.
Because I was really afraid of how my family was reacting, how I felt the world would respond to these things, I got really afraid and then angry. I wanted to not have a relationship with him; I broke up with him about three times, so we were in and out of relationship, it was quite … it wasn’t this walk in the park for AJ.
He was coping with a lot of emotions that I was throwing his way, a lot of blame and a lot of desire to control him, so I wouldn’t say that it felt very convenient to him. I know how he feels, and he knows that I’m his soulmate and he doesn’t want anyone else, but I’ve often said to him, “Babe, if you were some evil mastermind and you were going to choose people to be members of these fourteen souls, people who have returned to earth, you could have made better choices!” (laughs), because I’m tenacious and stubborn and not very humble and I get angry, and a lot of us are like that because there is a lot of fear in us. A lot of us resist a lot and when anyone is in resistance to their feelings they can become pretty nasty so I wouldn’t say … this implication that AJ has chosen me because I’m young and pretty, that doesn’t really match.
There are actually a lot of other women who would like to be with AJ who find him really attractive. They would like to feel like they’re Mary Magdalene, so if he was going to go shopping for a relationship he could have done that. He didn’t because that’s not the nature of the man, but certainly he’s not been in a situation where I’ve been like, adoring of him. There have been times in our relationship, as I said, where we’ve split up, where we haven’t had sex for periods of six months because I’ve been working through an issue where I’ve really resisted love, and that hasn’t always been easy for him either. So this implication that he’s just chosen a convenient partner so that he can have lots of sex or feel important because he has a pretty girlfriend or something – that’s not the case at all, simply based on the fact that it hasn’t really been an easy time for him in terms of me just opening my heart and falling in love.
The second thing I want to say about that is that AJ’s quite a catch himself. He’s a gorgeous-looking man who’s just got a beautiful heart; all he desires to do is to love and to serve others and so when people say “It’s quite convenient for you AJ, that Mary’s young and pretty,” I think, “Well it’s quite convenient for me.” You know, I feel like I won the lottery when it comes to soulmates. I feel like, “This is amazing,” although, as I said in the beginning times, I didn’t always feel like that. I felt a lot of resistance and quite angry a lot of the time. These days when people say that, I think, “Wow, you know I actually feel like he’s a pretty amazing attractive guy himself,” so I don’t feel like he’s sort of, I don’t know … that’s what I always want to say anyway.
Probably the biggest thing though, in responding to these kinds of comments, is that it’s sort of an underhanded way of accusing AJ of being someone who is just preying on women in some way for sex, as if he just wants to be in the company of someone who’s young and pretty rather than seeing that he actually wants to have an adult loving relationship with his soulmate and that there’s only one of me. Even in times when it seemed like we couldn’t be together he wasn’t looking for someone else and in fact before we met he was celibate for five years because he knew he didn’t want to have a relationship with anyone but his soulmate and then obviously when we met … but we’re still working towards having a really harmonious and loving relationship.
So I suppose the main thing I feel when people say these kinds of things, they’re often simple off-hand kinds of comments but there’s a lot in it that’s really insulting to AJ and towards me, making me seem like I’m just a bit of a bimbo. It also implies that he’s chosen me and that’s not how it works with soulmates. God created the two of you together and there’s no choice about who the other half of you is. Both of us respect that and AJ really loves that. It’s a beautiful part of his character that he wants to love only one woman who is the other half of him and that he’s willing to be really humble to whatever comes up in that process so that we can be closer together. That’s very different to the accusation that somehow he’s selected a young pretty girl and convinced her to be Mary Magdalene.
Eloisa: I agree. I think it’s quite a yuck comment actually, like, you can feel pretty gross and as you say it’s pretty yucky towards AJ as well. Once again, as you say, so many of these comments are made underhandedly or the person who makes them … I’ve been responsible for making not that comment but other comments without even thinking. We don’t realise the impact of what we’re actually saying and the put down towards you guys and to anybody we know that we make these comments to.
Yes definitely. There’s a lot, in little off-hand comments, that can be revealed about our underlying beliefs and I feel there’s a lot of cynicism on the planet; a lot of people don’t believe that people could just be good and be motivated by desire to be good people, and because of that there’s a lot of suspicion cast at AJ a lot of the time.
Eloisa: You get sucked into it as well I suppose. Well it’s both of you really isn’t it, though in this particular one they are claiming that you’re more of a bimbo than an intelligent half of a soul.
Yes. As we’ve said in other questions that we’ve been talking about today, because I have been reluctant to be forward, because I have wanted to hide in the background, because I’ve wanted to sort of control him into not being as transparent and open and direct with people – and he hasn’t listened to that and he has been open and direct with people – he often cops a lot of the suspicion or attack. Because of my lack of certainty – it’s not really a lack of certainty – my fear-driven actions, people don’t take me seriously and that’s certainly something that I’m working through now. I feel that I want to be counted as myself: this is what I believe and this is who I am, but that’s not always been the case so he’s sort of copped a lot.
Also I suppose saying you’re Jesus on the planet today is different to saying you’re Mary Magdalene. There’s so much expectation and fear of who Jesus should be and then fear about a man saying he’s Jesus and what dark motivations he might have, it means that AJ is actually exposed to a lot of people’s attack and ridicule. It’s almost like he has to prove himself seventy times over and even then it’s not enough for people to trust him or to believe him.
Eloisa: Big challenges hey? Well it’s not really; that’s my stuff speaking because just from our conversations today and the questions that you’ve answered, I think that the more you are owning who you are and being yourself and the more I’m around you, I don’t question you so much? I know with Jesus I can see it’s my issues. He’s very firm, and the same with you. When you guys are very firm, and when you’re firm about who you are, then I think it does put it back on the person, if they’re willing to see it.
Yes, it depends on how humble the person is but I think you were probably saying about the challenges: I feel these things are challenges to us while we still have fear about them. For me, it still feels challenging to be really public and open about who we are but it’s becoming less challenging the more I deal with the fears I have associated with it. I think for any of us, with any challenge that we face, the more willing we are to release the fears and grief we have around those things.
I know AJ’s been in that process for many more years than me and I know that at certain points he’s had to grieve the level of hatred or ridicule that comes towards him simply being himself, but because he’s done that it’s not really so much of a challenge for him anymore. I firmly believe that both of us will reach a point where it doesn’t challenge us in the slightest. He’s pretty close to that point, especially when it comes to talking about who he is, but any challenge that we face, as we develop this relationship with God and essentially deal with our fears and our false beliefs around those challenges, then they begin to not be challenges anymore and that’s a really hopeful thing isn’t it?
Eloisa: That’s the exciting thing, definitely! Thank you.
Eloisa: Don’t you (Mary Luck) believe you are Mary Magdalene just to please AJ (who claims he is Jesus) and so that you can have relationship with him? Aren’t you just blinded by your love for him and doing and saying things to please him?
I think this one’s a little bit funny: just the thought that I’m blinded by my love for AJ or Jesus – whichever you want to call him. As I’ve mentioned in some previous questions that we’ve talked about today, certainly when we met it wasn’t a magical romance. I didn’t fall madly in love, I didn’t feel blindly in love with him. In fact, I was really confronted by his level of honesty, by his desire to share Divine Truth publicly and I tried for a long time to prevent him doing that, to control his doing that and to control him into not doing that. Also, it was a bit of a turn off because it was triggering so much fear inside of me that he was being public about who he is. He was challenging so many people through his honesty and truthfulness and directness with them.
I actually found in the beginning that my attraction to him was quite hot and cold. I’d feel attracted to him; I’d feel that he was a wonderful guy and I felt attracted to the truth that he gave and I could feel that his character was good and he was a great-looking guy and all of these things, and then my fears would be triggered and I would actually feel quite the opposite. I would feel like, “I don’t even find you physically attractive, I don’t want to be with you, I don’t even really like you.” These are some of the things that I have felt or said to him in the past, so certainly it’s not valid to think that I’ve been blinded by my love for AJ. The love that I do feel for him has grown through my growing in humility and releasing different fears from myself, and because of that my heart is more open and I see him more for the man that he really is. I’m not controlled by him; I don’t feel that the only way to have a relationship with him is to believe that I’m Mary Magdalene.
I’ve had a friendship with him since I’ve known him and for some of that time I wanted to believe that I wasn’t Mary Magdalene even though I felt it. I said, “That’s it; I’m not,” and I tried to live my life as if I was not, trying to forget what the realisation had exposed inside of me and it didn’t work very well for me.
I actually became really miserable and I didn’t have contact with him for about three or four months through that time, and then we did have some intermittent contact but it was purely on a friendship basis and he was fine with me. He didn’t share my belief and I knew he didn’t share my belief but he didn’t force that I had to believe that I was Mary Magdalene on me in order to have a friendship with him. I didn’t really want to have anything more than a friendship with him at that time, and at various times throughout the last five years I’ve really only wanted to have a friendship with him because I’ve found the intimate and romantic and emotional side of our relationship to be really confronting.
So I wouldn’t say that I fell head over heels in love with this man who made it a condition that I believe I’m Mary Magdalene in order to know him or to be with him. What else can I say about that? Probably that AJ really wants me to be myself. He doesn’t want me to do things to please him – in fact, again as I’ve mentioned previously, when I met him a lot of my feelings of what a romantic or close relationship should be were based on co-dependency, with the partner filling some emotional holes in myself, providing me emotions so I didn’t have to feel certain things and me doing the same for my partner. I felt that I should please him; I should do things for him in order to get him to love me and care for me, and every time I tried to do that he stopped me.
While I wasn’t saying, “Oh, I’m Mary Magdalene,” to please him because the desire for co-dependency did not extend to that point, certainly me modifying my desires in day-to-day life; where we should eat, what we should do; I tried those kinds of things a lot and in every case he said, “Well no, you don’t even want to do that; you’re just doing that to please me, and I can’t have that. I want you to be yourself, I want you to experience your own desires and have your own life.” There were absolutely no conditions in the man that I should be a certain way in order for him to love me.
In fact his love is so unconditional that even when I’ve been quite nasty to him at times, he’s still maintained love towards me and patience and kindness and has never reverted to being nasty in return. So no, I don’t feel that … well I know that I’m not just saying something to please him in order to get his love and approval because I know that I would have his love no matter what I chose for my life. Even if I chose to not be with him I know that I would have his love.
Also, I’ve had my own experience, I’m having my own experience and, as I’ve mentioned previously, I was very definite with him that I didn’t want him to even impact on my own experience and that I wasn’t going to be believing or saying or even entertaining the idea that I was Mary Magdalene unless it was based on my own experience. I have had, and continue to have, my own experience and even if AJ fell off the face of the earth I’d still be Mary Magdalene.
Eloisa: It’s not a condition.
It’s not a condition of our relationship.
Eloisa: Why do you have to say that you are Mary Magdalene, even if you are? Surely it would be better just to keep it to yourself.
Yes well, that’s certainly been my preference in the past and when I met AJ I think I said something very similar to him: “Even if you are Jesus why do we have to talk about it?!!!” (Laughs)
Eloisa: Yes, that’s what I was thinking.
But look, there are a lot of reasons why I think it’s important to say the truth about who I am: I feel it’s important to my relationship with God but also to have personal integrity in my relationship with others and with myself. In the past I’ve just felt afraid of how other people would respond to my saying it. I’ve also felt that my experience is difficult for other people to relate to because they’re not having the same experience of having had a life on earth before, and in the spirit world, and then coming back and having another body and another experience and coming to terms with the memories of all of that and the psychological aspects of that. I’ve felt that people won’t be able to relate to it so why should we talk about it?
Even speaking about my experience of memories at times, because I know that it’s so different from what other people experience, I’ve felt like people are just going to feel like I’m crazy. At times I’ve even felt like, “This is a little bit crazy; I feel a little bit crazy.” I didn’t like feeling those things; I just wanted to avoid the whole thing but I have gone through this process of coming to really feel in my heart how important it is that I am honest and open about who I am.
The first thing is that I’m involved in giving public seminars and lectures, teaching Divine Truth, and one of the really key principles involved in the teachings of Divine Truth is how important it is to truthfully present yourself to others. If I were to stand up in front of people and hold onto a belief about who I am to myself, then I would be a hypocrite in terms of what we’re teaching. I also feel that saying upfront who I am and the experiences that I have, or at least giving people the opportunity to know those things upfront … certainly we don’t lead every seminar with that but we’re open about that with people and we have all this video material on YouTube now that makes it very open and clear for people to see.
I feel that that is actually most loving to people. It gives them the opportunity first up, before they decide if they want to listen to anything else, to know who they’re hearing this information from and what those people feel about themselves. We know it about ourselves but for them it might be a matter of opinion. However, at least they have the opportunity to make a well-informed decision. If we were to hide these things people might feel really tricked or cheated when we were eventually open about it, and I feel it is most loving towards them that they know who we are from the beginning.
The second thing is that I feel that, or I know that, all of God’s Laws respond to truth, that God’s designed His whole universe around these principles that mean that the laws act with us when we are truthful and they respond positively to us opening to more Truth and to more Love, even though at times I might feel like, “Gosh, even more people would listen to us if we just hid who we were.” This message that we’re teaching is very loving and logical and it’s practical and people can experiment with it and know if it’s true. There have been times where I’ve thought, “Well, if we didn’t say who we were …” which is what puts a lot of people off initially, “… more people might listen and they might have more happiness in their life.”
But if I honour the truth that I know that all of God’s Laws respond to us being truthful then I have faith that by my being honest and truthful the best set of circumstances will work out for everyone involved and the most possibility for love to grow will exist if I am truthful because then I am more in harmony with God’s Laws and so I’d be crazy not to be truthful.
Probably the biggest thing that I feel about being open about who I am is that if I wasn’t open about who I am then I would be lacking personal integrity and the humility to deal with whatever people decided to feel about me as a result. Like, I’d be hiding behind a facade and trying to prevent other people’s true feelings, and by hiding the truth I actually prevent other people exposing the truth of how they really feel inside of them. Not only that but also I’d be in disharmony with God’s Laws and I don’t want to live in disharmony with God’s Laws anymore. Even though I’m still out of harmony with lots of them, I’m really attempting to bring my will into harmony with them because I know that’s how we grow and that’s how we can know God.
Eloisa: That’s cool. Are you finding now that you’ve actually … From when I first met you to now, I feel that you’re embracing who you are exponentially; it’s completely different to when I first met you. Are you finding that there’s a real proof for you, the sense of a real confirmation of God’s Laws as you do this?
Definitely Eloisa. I’m much happier and the more fear I confront the happier I become. I’m still not happy all the time. There are still lots of fears and grief inside of me but the more willing I am to embrace myself the more of that gets dealt with. When I first met you, I was just so afraid of even emotionally exploring the truth that I knew about myself that I hid it, not only from you but I really tried to suppress it inside of myself.
I was unhappy, as you probably saw, and I wasn’t confident and that couldn’t change in me until … It has been a gradual process that I’ve been going through, of coming to terms with the fact that if I’m humble to what I already feel and what’s being triggered by this knowledge of who I am, and if I embrace the truth about those things, then I’ll grow. That’s the only way I’ve been able to grow. I think that’s why you see a sort of exponential thing happening, because when I was in complete denial everything shut down. As soon as I decided to open up to emotion more, open up more to being truthful about who I am in every situation, then an exponential growth was possible. It’s not linear anymore; it’s sort of exponential.
I certainly feel that in the last six months or so … I spoke about this recently at a seminar. Since we’ve had various media interactions over the years, for me it’s always triggered all of those fears that I’ve had such as, “Who’s going to see this, what are they going to think of me, people are going to recognise me, ohhh nightmare,” you know and, “They’re going to be attacking, they already think we’re idiots, they’re just making fun of us,” all of this stuff. I’d go into an interview just sitting on that stuff, not releasing the fear and grief I had around it and because of that I didn’t even really express myself very well in those interviews. I didn’t really come off as myself I don’t think; I wasn’t being myself and it was a really negative experience for me. In the last six months I decided I had a different choice and that was to be more humble to the whole process. If you think about it, if I’m saying that I’ve been teaching Divine Truth or been a part of the teachings of Divine Truth for five years, that’s a long time coming, that decision to actually just be humble to this media interaction stuff.
I think it was such a long time coming because it triggered some of my really, really deep fears, deeply held fears about being well known, about being attacked, about appearing crazy, but I eventually understood that I had a choice here, and that would be to be myself, not just say who I am but be myself, Mary Magdalene, and express myself in the interview. While there were still a lot of other emotions within me that affected how those interviews went, I felt a lot happier in those interviews because I wasn’t trying to minimise or apologise or avoid who I was. There are still other emotions that cause people to think about dismissing me sometimes; I have feelings of feeling insignificant inside of myself and so I attract that. There are other things that go on but certainly the projections, the beliefs that other people have about us that I can feel, that we’re crazy or silly or somehow bad, they don’t because I’ve decided to be myself and be humble. I actually worked through a lot of those emotions before I got into that interview chair and because of that I had fun.
For some parts of it I had fun and I had thought that would never be possible. I just thought it would be the worst thing in the world for any camera to be aimed at me. While I didn’t have fun in the sense that I felt, “Oh yay, it’s great that there are cameras on me,” I had the simple joy of just being able to be myself in a situation where I hadn’t previously. Listening to my fears had meant that I didn’t allow myself to be myself so yes, I feel that my happiness is improving all of the time and I’m really getting this proof that God’s Laws do respond to truth and our humility. It’s sort of crazy how good it is when you do that, like, to actually test the theory, not just talk about it, and to feel the experience, not only of change within yourself but change in what you attract – that’s pretty powerful.
Eloisa: Pretty cool.
Yes, thank you sister.
Eloisa: Thanks so much for your time and sharing your life, it’s been cool! As I said to you, I’d think about a book? It’d be awesome.
I’m happy to start here but thank you very much for spending the time.
Eloisa: My pleasure.
I’ve enjoyed it a lot. Thanks to Lena and Igor on the cameras.
Eloisa: Anytime, yes thanks, guys.
Mary discusses her identity as Mary Magdalene, including; when she first felt these feelings, her memories, potential reasons for Mary believing these things about herself, whether her beliefs have been influenced by AJ Miller (Jesus), and how important she believes the issue of her own identity is for herself and others. Document source filename: 20130902 FAQ - Mary Identity S01. This ebook is a collection of answers given by Mary Magdalene (Mary Luck) on the topic of her identity. The answers were given in an interview with Eloisa Lytton-Hitchins, who posed frequently asked questions from members of the media and public, on 2nd September 2013, in Kentucky, New South Wales, Australia.