Gnani Purush Dadashri
Copyright 2010 by Shuddha Anami
Please note that Gnani Purush never wrote a word for any book. This book is a compilation of his spoken words in satsang, and Shuddha Anami is a translator within a collective, of the words spoken in Gujarati. Shuddha has been sharing the English translations of the satsangs of Gnani Purush Dadashri on the Internet since 1994.
Note About This Book in English
Aptavani 13 of Gnani Purush Dadashri in Gujarati language, published in July 2002, by Atmagnani Dr. Niruben Amin is in 2 volumes. The first chapter of volume 1 is on prakruti—the non-Self complex. The first chapter of volume 2 is on pragnya. Both these words have relevance for the awakened One in Akram Vignan, the science that liberates directly through the grace of the Gnani Purush. In the Gnan Vidhi of Gnani Purush Dadashri, the Self separates from the non-Self, and the new energy of liberation called pragnya maintains and completes this liberated state of the Self.
In Self-realization, the Self that is separate form the self—the mind, speech, body complex—is experienced. This experience is beyond words. To facilitate the further experience of this separation, the reader of this book is requested to allow for the use of capital letters in the book, which have been used frequently for ease of understanding the message of the Gnani Purush. The small ‘s’ is the self or the worldly interacting self, where the reader has to introduce one’s own worldly name. The ‘S’ is used to denote the awakened Self after the Gnan Vidhi or the absolute Self. Similarly, the small ‘y’ is used for the worldly self, and the ‘Y’ for ‘You’ is for the awakened One. The small ‘v’ is for the vision through the worldly eyes or the physical eyes whereas the ‘V’ is for the Vision of the awakened One as the Self. In the same vein, the words that are meant to convey the realm and domain of the awakened Self have capital use e.g. ‘Knower’ or ‘Seer’ or ‘Conduct’ versus knower, seer, conduct as the self.
Many single words in Gujarati have different conveyance of meaning and a standard glossary meaning cannot be applied in this. Hence the implicit meaning in context is directly provided adjacent to the Gujarati word. Many new words in Gujarati have to be used. This is an unavoidable necessity, because this liberating Science is new to the world. It did not exist before 1958. Pragnya is one such word. This will become evident upon reading this book.
Word from the Translator:
Understanding Pragnya Exactly
Pragnya: Jada or Chetan?
That is not Right Intellect
State of Ugnya Shakti after Gnan
Who Follows the Five Agnas?
That Which Keeps the Separation is Pragnya
That Which Cautions Within is Indeed the Experience of the Self
Who Cautions the uGnani?
Who Feels Regret?
Thoughts and Pragnya are Completely Separate
How can the Seer get Tired?
The Separated Chit is Indeed Pragnya
Difference of Night and day Detween the two
Beware Against Listening to the Intellect
Pragnya is Independent From Buddhi
Pragnya’s Function is of Knowledge Activity Only
Pragnya is Above Buddhi; Above Both is Vignan
Help of Buddhi in Spirituality
Intellect That Runs the Worldly Life
Are Right Buddhi and Pragnya the Same?
Owenership in Samyak Buddhi
Stithapragnya State and Manifest Pragnya
The State of Akram is Very Elevated
The non eating- non-drinking- non-speaking Self
Upto Ninety-nine it is Stithapragnya, and at Hundred it is Pragnya
When Moha Leaves, One Becomes Still in the Unchangeable
Stithaugnya as Long as There is Doubt
Beyond the Stithapragnya State
Is There a Place for ego in Stithapragnya?
The Difference Between Stithpragnya and Vitarag
Are These Discoveries Through Pragnya or Buddhi?
Pragnya Warns the ego
Pragnya Helps one do Niddhidhyasan of Dada
Pure Chit is Indeed Shuddhatma
The Unique Energy of Dada’s Pragnya
The Role of Pragnya in Settling a File With Equanimity
Decisions of Pragnya or Ugnya
How to Remain One With Pragnya?
What Part Does Pragnya Caution?
Who opposes mistakes?
Who Suffers the Results of Pragnya?
Knower and the Sufferer, They are Both Separate
Subtle Understanding of Shraddha-Pragnya
Relation Between Sooj and Pragnya
That is Darshan, not Sooj
Intellect Indeed is Ignorance?
Pragnya is Neither Real, nor Relative
Difference between Knowledge of Separation and Pragnya
Shuddhatma, Pratisthit Atma and Pragnya
Gnayakta- Current Knowing: Whose is it?
A Perfect Couple: Jagruti and Pragnya
Dada’s Meddlesome Pragnya
Significance of Grace
Ego is Nimit in Jagatkalyan and Pragnya Makes one do it
Till Then Only Pragnya is Knower-Seer
Who is the Meditator and What is the Meditation?
Gnan, Pragnya & Vignan
Separation Through Intellect, Oneness through Pragnya
What Does Attaining Oneness Mean?
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Questioner: The constant awareness of, ‘this is my state as the Self (swaroop) and this is other’ – which part has this awareness? What part is that?
Dadashri: It is pragnya that shows [You all that]. Pragnya shows You everything. It shows You everything as separate [from You-the Self].
Questioner: The awareness remains that the one showing these separate is also not me; I am this.
Dadashri: That is correct, pragnya shows that.
Questioner: How did pragnya arise and from where did it arise?
Dadashri: It arises along side with the Gnan ‘We-Gnani Purush Dadashri and Dadabhagwan within’ give you. Gnan gave rise to the pragnya. Work of the pragnya begins from there on.
There are two energies within. Pragnya shakti (energy of the Self) arises when ‘we’ give you Gnan. Otherwise every living being always has ugna shakti (energy of ignorance; intellect) within him. Therefore, when ‘I’ (Self)’ and ‘murti’ (non-Self complex) come together, it is called ugnya shakti. Ugnya shakti that gives rise to the worldly life (sansar). It will not let one come out of the worldly life. Pragnya shakti will not let the self remain in sansar. It will force the awakened One, tie ‘him’ up and drag ‘him’ to moksha. So this energy that has arisen continues to do the work. You (the Self) should not interfere in it. The work continues spontaneously; the work is happening naturally
Pragnya arises after the Gnani Purush removes one’s egoism. Egoism and mamata – ‘my-ness’ that arises out of the illusion of ‘I am Chandubhai’ – stand in service of ugnya shakti (energy of ignorance; intellect). When pragnya arises, energy by the name of ugnya (ignorance); picks up all its things and leaves. Just as, when the Congress Government came to power, all the British left, did they not?
What has God said was the cause for bondage? Ignorance of the Self (ugnya) causes bondage. Worldly life (sansar) is being bound through ugnya. Paap-punyai (sin and merit karma effect) are created through ignorance. The opposite word to ugnya is liberation (mukti), which happens through pragnya. That pragnya will constantly caution You. It was not there before, before there was ugnya. Ugnya keeps on winding over and over in the wrong direction and thus giving rise to the worldly life. The worldly life is destroyed through pragnya. There is ego through ugnya – ignorance of the Self. Pragnya arises when one becomes egoless. It arises when the awareness (laksha) of ‘I am Shuddhatma’ becomes established.
In ignorance (ugnya), there is, ‘I did this, I suffered pain, he did it, he cursed me etc.’ Pragnya says, ‘I am not the doer, I am not the sufferer, I am the Knower. The poor man who cursed me is just a nimit (evidentiary instrument), he is also not the doer (karta).’ That is the ultimate knowledge (Gnan). The ultimate tool for moksha is the prevalence of the awareness that the other person is the non-doer (akarta) and having the awareness that You are not the doer.
Questioner: Is it upyoga (applied awareness) of pragnya to know raag-dwesh (attachment-abhorrence) as raag-dwesh? Is pragnya operating at that time?
Dadashri: The ‘basement’ of pragnya is different. Even the one who is not Self-realised (uGnani) understands that this person is doing raag-dwesh. Pragnya knows that raag-dwesh is gone. An uGnani would not understand that. Even a small child understands raag-dwesh, does it not? If you pull a frown (angry look) on your face, the child will run away and not come back.
Pragnya arises when ugnya goes away. There is ugnya (ignorance) as long as there is wrong belief (mithyatva) in a living being, and when that wrong belief is removed, pragnya arises.
Questioner: Does pragnya not arise while living the worldly life, only ugnya continues?
Dadashri: No, Pragnya has arisen within You [the mahatma]. Is pragnya not active within you despite you living the worldly life? Hence, wherever you have bondage in worldly life, it will always help you break that bondage forever through caution. If you are not aware, you will receive a caution from within; that is the work of pragnya. And when you are doing something in the worldly life, ugnya shakti (energy of ignorance) will tell you, ‘You can get married if you do this’, you are likely to find someone.’Ugnya shakti does caution but that will lead to wandering around in worldly life. And pragnya will caution You for moksha.
Questioner: All the decisions are taken by intellect (buddhi), aren’t they?
Dadashri: Yes, the intellect makes the decision, but there are two kinds of decisions. Decisions for moksha are made by pragnya, and worldly decisions are made by ugnya. Ugnya means buddhi – intellect. All the decisions are of ugnya-pragnya.
The Production of Ugnya?
Questioner: What is the difference between Gnan and pragnya?
Dadashri: Pragnya is an energy born out of Gnan.
Pragnyais is indeed the direct energy, a direct light of the Self, and ugnya is an indirect light. Ugnya is considered a top-level intellect or even starting from the smallest level of intellect, but it is all ugnya. Nevertheless, it is still the energy of the Self. Ugnya is the energy of the Self, and pragnya is also the energy of the Self.
Questioner: How can it be considered the energy of the Self?
Dadashri: Ugnya shakti arose as an extra result (vishesh parinam).
Questioner: Dada, it is it not that it is the same energy. It results into ugnya when it goes out, and when it is within…
Dadahri: No, it is not like that. Ugnya shakti is different, but they are both the energies of the Self. Whereas, there is no such energy in the pudgal (non-Self complex), is there?
Questioner: So does that mean that all the energies there are, they are of the Self?
Dadashri: They are all the energies of the Self, but as long as the Self is trapped within vishesh parinam (extra result; the belief of ‘I am Chandubhai’), it will not come out of the ugnya shakti, will it? When it comes out of the ugnya shakti, when it comes into its awareness of the Self, then ugnya shakti will leave. That is when it results in the Self, thereafter pragnya shakti does the work. Then it will not let you go into the worldly life.
So, both the energies are of the Self indeed. There is no external energy in this. Pragnya shakti and ugnya shakti are both things of belief; they are beleif.
Questioner: Why did ugnya shakti begin, what was the reason behind it?
Dadashri: Circumstance of coming together of the Self and the non-Self (jada) gave rise to extra knowledge, and that is ugnya shakti.
Questioner: Between ugnya and pragnya, who has the dominance?
Dadashri: They both rule; each in its own location, both rule in their respective location.
Questioner: Is there a difference between pragnya and pratisthit atma?
Dadashri: A tremendous difference. Pratisthit atma is this ‘Chandubhai’ and pragnya is a part of the Self.
Questioner: From where did pragnya begin?
Dadashri: It does not have a place of origin, it is time based. At the time when the wrong belief (mithyatva) is fractured, pragnya presents. With the demise of the intellect, it becomes present.
Questioner: Many times, in discussions, we say that pragnya is part of the Self.
Dadashri: Yes, that is exactly what it is, is it not?
Questioner: Is it a part of the Self?
Dadashri: ‘Part of the Self’ – don’t interpret it in this way. You take everything in your own language (interpretation).
That is its nature, it arises at certain time and then it ends after it takes one to moksha. Even this ugnya that has arisen, comes to an end. Ugnya comes to end when pragnya arises. Just as daylight follows the darkness of the night.
Questioner: So is there some part of vikalp (‘I am Chandubhai’) in the pragnya?
Dadashri: Vikalp has not connection here. Vikalp is all ugnya. There is no vikalp in it; it is nirvikalpi – free from the belief of ‘I am Chandubhai’; egoless state. It is Chetan (the Self), not jada (non-Self), but it has separated from the Self just to do this work (take the awakened One to moksha). [At that time] it will again become one with the Self.
Questioner: Pragnya is not pudgal (non-Self complex that fills and empties), is it a part in between the Self and the non-Self?
Dadashri: No, it is not something that is between the Self and the non-Self. It is the part of the Self that becomes separate the day ‘We’ give the Gnan. The Self does not do anything while it (pragnya) takes one all the way to moksha. So as a part of the Self, it continues to work separately from the Self. Whole authority of the Self is in the hands of pragnya, just like a power of attorney.
Questioner: So what can God do? He is a Knower-Seer. He does not interfere in anything at all; he is vitarag (absolutely without attachment).
Dadashri: Nothing remains to meddle in, does it? Pragnya is like God’s representative.
Questioner: Dada, is samyak buddhi (right intellect) itself pragnya?
Dadashri: No pragnya is higher than that. Pragnya is a representative of the Self. The Self itself does not do anything in taking you from the worldly life to moksha. Pragnya is a part of the Self that is constantly alerting You in order to take You (the awakened One) to moksha.
That is pragnya, and that is the main Self indeed, but for right now it is considered as pragnya. There is no activity of the Self itself that takes one to moksha.
When the work of pragnya is over, it becomes still in the Self again. Pragnya cannot be in every living being. Pragnya arises when the Gnani Purush makes one aware of his Self. In every living being, there is always ugnya present if pragnya is not there.
Questioner: Pragnya does not allow ugnya to come in, that is its only function, is it not?
Dadashri: Not letting ugnya in is not even an issue. It will not only prevent ugnya from entering but along with it, its function is to take You to moksha. If uGnan (ignorance) arises, it will squash it and give one the understanding and take him to moksha. And the function of ugnya is whatever a little light that has arisen, it will turn it into darkness, and take one into the worldly life (sansar).
So we should not remain on the side of ugnya shakti. Ugnya shakti has made one wander around in the worldly life. It has all the weapons; anger-pride-deceit-greed. It has a very heavy ego; that entire army is very strong. And, there is no ego in pragnya shakti, which is why You have to be present. Pragnya shakti cannot lose if You remain on her side. It will continue doing its work. It is upsham bhaav (view-intent that temporarily prevents kashaya from becoming overt; suppression) therefore close the gates immediately on any restlessness that arises within. But if one intentionally wants to be negative, saying ‘I want to do raag-dwesh’, then that pragnya will move aside.
It is solely for pragnya shakti to not not have any problems, maintain service (sevan) of the Gnani Purish. Thus that energy will strengthen. No hindrance should come to that energy. If it has not become firm and is new, it will go away when it faces any hindrance.
Questioner: So both ugnya and pragnya are there. Is there ugnya when pragnya is not there, and when pragnya is there, ugnya is not there?
Dadashri: No, they both remain together. Confusion continues in that. Now that you have been given Gnan, they remain together in the body. So ugnya causes some suffocation. That ugnya shakti will gradually perish, and pragnya will increase.
Questioner: When suffocation arises, I feel that ugnya shakti is about to leave.
Dadashri: When one becomes confused, at that time it is ugnya shakti. And then, when he is not in control, he becomes confused and then it comes to an end. That ugnya shakti (energy of ignorance) will remain as long as uGnan (ignorance of the Self) is there. By however much ugnya shakti decreases, pragnya shakti becomes liberated proportionately. Suffocation causes confusion. It does not take away anything of Ours, but when it causes suffocation, it does not allow bliss that was coming to you. You are sitting with the Self and so you should experience the bliss of the Self, but it will not allow that. It will let you suffocate. It will not make you worry; it will only cause you suffocation.
First all your desires of worldly life arose, and ugnya shakti is working to fulfill those desires. But now, the force of ugnya shakti is not going to increase a lot. Other desires are not going to arise from it. So a [new] seed is not going to be sown from a seed. Whatever you have is what it is, and at the same time pragnya shakti tells you, ‘I want to settle everything. I do not want to leave anything pending anymore.’ Settle means to bring an end to it/finish it.
‘Our’ ugnya-shakti is gone, ‘our’ buddhi (intellect) is gone; ‘we’ do not have any buddhi (intellect). Even the scientists would not believe that the intellect in ‘us’ is finished. No one would believe that buddhi can go away, would they?
Questioner: Do some people have more or less ugnya?
Dadashri: Ugnya can vary. Pragnya works immediately upon the attainment of Gnan. Where does ‘its’ endeavor (Purushartha) lie, thereafter? Purushartha means to follow the five Agnas. If one does not do Purushartha after becoming the Purush (Self), then is it not his own fault? One is said to have become Purush after attaining Gnan. And if he follows the Agnas after becoming Purush, he continues to become Purshottam (God). The one who becomes Purshottam, becomes Paramatma (absolute Self). The path is indeed a systematic highway, is it not?
Questioner: Who follows the Agnas, the pratisthit atma (Chandulal) follows them, does it not?
Dadashri: Where is the question for the pratisthit atma to follow the Agnas in this? It is the nature of Your pragnya that makes You follow the Agnas that you have to follow. When the energy of the Self, known as pragnya is present, then what else does one need? There is no interference of anything, is there? You just have to follow the Agnas. Pragnya shakti is letting you do what ugnya shakti did not let you do. When You follow the Agnas, it means that, ‘I am Shuddhatma’ is in your conviction (pratiti) and awareness (laksha), but only a little in Your experience (anubhav). You have not become that state yet. You become that when You follow the five Agnas. So there is nothing else to do.
So, Agna is dharma (religion) and Agna is tapa (penance). As long as there is tapa, there is pragnya. Until then one is not the main Self state ( swaroop). The attribute of penance is not in the Self; it is pragnya that makes one do the penance.
Questioner: The experience of separation from the body that mahatmas experience after attaining Gnan, and the awareness of Shuddhatma that they have and the activity of Knowing that is going on; all this happens with pragnya, does it not?
Dadashri: All the work is of pragnya shakti.
Questioner: So then it means that Seeing through gnan-kriya (activity of the Self to ‘See’ and ‘Know’) is far beyond that?
Dadashri: That is it, right now the Knowing activity is that of pragnya shakti. That true Gnankriya will happen when all these files have been settled.
Questioner: I read in an Aptavani that, that which knows the impure (ashuddha), inauspicious (ashubha) and auspicious (shubha) activities is intellectual activity (buddhi kriya), and that which Knows only the pure (shuddha) is Gnan kriya. That is why I thought that pragnya sees everything.
Dadashri: Yes, through pragnya. That pragnya is up to a certain limit, it is there as long as these files are being settled. When the files have been settled, the Self itself is the Knower.
Questioner: So is this pragnya there to help one reach up to the gates of moksha?
Dadashri: Not till the gate, it takes one right into moksha. Yes, the one to help You attain the absolute state is pragnya.
Questioner: Does pragnya shakti come back after one goes to moksha?
Dadashri: No, that shakti (energy) remains only until it takes one to moksha (until one attains keval Gnan).
Questioner: Pragnya makes sure that we do not become one [with the self-Chandulal], does it not?
Dadashri: Yes, pragnya maintains the separation in exactness, You have been given the Gnan of not becoming one form (ekaakaar) as the self. Pragnya makes You aware when any mistake happens, that is all.
Questioner: To be warned and notice caution, how am I to understand that?
Dadashri: Remain aware. Do not become ‘one’ with ‘that’ [Chandubhai].
Questioner: Yes, it does not become one with vishesh bhaav (view of ‘I am Chandubhai’). Does that not become the activity of the Self, Dada?
Dadashri: It is not considered activity of the Self at all in anything.
Questioner: Is the activity of heeding to caution (chetvoo, cheto) activity of the Self or not?
Dadashri: Heeding to caution is natural activity.
Questioner: Is it not of the pragnya? Is it the Self’s or pragnya’s?
Dadashri: It is of pragnya. It is all one and the same. In fact there is nothing else there, in fact. Do we not say to be aware? Maintain upyoga (applied awareness). Upyog is maintaining awareness.
Questioner: Is it that which becomes tanmayakar (one)?
Dadashri: Yes, that is the ugnya shakti, and what does not allow you to become one, is the pragnya shakti.
Questioner: Having become Shuddhatma, only ‘Seeing’ (jovaanoo) is in our control, is it not?
Dadashri: All the energy of seeing-understanding (jovani-samajvani) is of the pragnya. The energy of Shuddhatma that arises, it is of the pragnya shakti, and energy of ego is the ugnya shakti which is in the form of intellect. It shows profit and loss wherever it goes. It will show profit and loss (benefit-loss) even sitting in a bus. It will show profit-loss even when you sit down to eat.
Questioner: When you explain things to us, whom does it reach? The body or the Self?
Dadashri: The Self, of-course. But which Self? Not the Self that is Shuddhatma; the satsang continues with the energy known as pragnya. It reaches, not the body, but to the energy that lies between the body and the Self. It is the pragnya shakti that understands this. Pragnya shakti catches whatever is being explained here.
That which cautions You, the whole day long, is indeed the pragnya. It is constantly separating (Self and the non-Self). All this experience, the experience of the whole day keeps us exactly separate, does it not?
Questioner: That is correct.
Dadashri: It does not allow them to become one.
Questioner: The experience of the Self began from the moment pragnya began, did it not?
Dadashri: Experience of the Self definitely happens [in the Gnan Vidhi]. Only then will it caution you, otherwise the laksha (attention or target; here the Self) of ‘I am Shuddhatma’ will not remain at all. Whereas here it constantly remains in your laksha and it will also remain constantly is your jagruti (awakened awareness). That light will continue to shine indeed, but what can it do if you drift off to some other place? And that light is constantly present if you follow the Agnas. If one completely understands this science (Akram Vignan) in this way, then it will be beneficial. Does it caution You from within? It will caution You the moment you deviate anyway.
Questioner: Yes, it cautions me immediately within. Such is my experience.
Dadashri: Now, from that cautioning, do You not realize that despite no activity on your part, it continues to happen in this way? It cautions You when every mistake happens , does it not? Wherever mistake happens, it cautions You, does it not? What is that? It is pragnya. It will caution You the moment a mistake happens. Hence, this is science of the Self –Chetan Vignan. And where there is scriptural knowledge, one has to ‘do’ everything. You have to ‘do’ whatever is written in scriptures, whereas in this, You do not have to do anything. It happens by itself, does it not?
Questioner: Now, this pragnya keeps cautioning, I do experience that for sure, but at the same time my Purusharth (progress as the Self) has to be there also, does it not?
Dadashri: What Purushartha?
Questioner: With the help of pragnya I recognize that wrong has happened, so should I not clean it by doing pratikraman?
Dadashri: The Purushartha of pratikraman will indeed be there. Pratikraman do indeed happen. For the one who does atrikraman, the Purushartha of pratikraman constantly happens. The Purush (the Self) continues to perform the function of the Self.
Pratikraman does indeed happen automatically. It happens naturally and spontaneously, and if it does not happen, then he should do it. There is no ‘doing’ in it, one just has to have the inner intent (bhaav). Where there is there is unawareness (ajagruti), there must remain aware.
Who Takes one Away From Prganya?
Questioner: When something does not happen according to what pragnya cautions, who/what makes me do that in the wrong direction?
Dadashri: When things do not happen that way, it’s because of obstacles (antarya) you had created yourself. So even if it is what You desire, it will not happen.
Questioner: What is the solution to the obstacles that have been created?
Dadashri: Whatever has happened has already come into effect. [The obstacle encountered now, is the result of obstacle karma bound in past life] You become free after suffering the obstruction; there is no choice. However, new ones should not be created.
Pragnya and Divine Eyes
Questioner: I can see the results of anger-pride-deceit-greed (kashaya) and sexuality (vishaya) that arise within through the divine inner vision (divya chakshu) you have bestowed. Is that divine vision indeed the pragnya shakti ?
Dadashri: All this is ‘Seen’ only through pragnya shakti. However divyachakshu does only one thing: to See Shuddhatma (the Self) in others. All these other things, anger-pride-deceit-greed, results of sexuality, that are seen within, that is all the function of pragnya shakti. Pragnya shakti works as long as the worldly results remain to be settled.
Hence, divine vision (divyachakshu) does only one thing that is all. These physical eyes, shows the relative, and the divine eyes (divyachakshu) shows you the real. Divine vision does not do anything else.
Questioner: Many times, having done something wrong, I feel ‘this should not happen’. Who feels that way? Does the ego feel that way or is it actually happens to the Self?
Dadashri: ‘This should not happen’ does not happen to the Self. It happens to the pragnya shakti that is within; therefore the oinion has changed that ‘this should not happen’. The ego says, ‘this should happen’, and pragnya says, ‘this should not happen’. Both differ in their opinions. One is headed towards east and the other towards west.
Questioner: Now the one who has not attained Gnan, he also feels that, ‘I should not be doing this.’ So does he also have some level of his own honesty?
Dadashri: It is the knowledge (gnan) he knows that lets him know that, but that knowledge does not produce results, it is not kriyakari (does not work on its own from within).
Questioner: Yes. I wanted to know that, it is it?
Dadashri: That gnan (knowledge) does not grow, it is shushka gnan –knowledge, which does not produce any results, whereas Vignan grows. This is called Vignan.
Now that You know the Self, what else is there left for you to know? You know that this is the Self and this is not. It is not the Self at the time of settling with equanimity.
Questioner:Is it the Self or Chandubhai that is settling with equanimity?
Dadashri: It is pragnya shakti. The Self actually does not have to do anything. If Chandubhai is upset, if he is angry, You will not like that, ‘Why is it like that?’ This is the Self, and that other is Chandubhai.
Questioner: Who feels repentance after getting angry? Is it the attribute of jada (matter, the non-Self matter) or Chetan (the Self)?
Dadashri: It is not the attribute of either jada or Chetan. It is the nature (swabhav) of pragnya. Jada or Chetan do not have such attributes. It does not have attribute like getting angry.
Questioner: This repentance that happens, who makes it happen?
Dadashri: Pragnya makes you do all that.
Questioner: Who makes one do pratikraman?
Dadashri: Pragnya makes you do all that.
One can become a God when the mistakes begin to be Seen. How does one start Seeing mistakes? It is with pragnya shakti. Mistakes are seen through pragnya shakti, which is a part of the Self. It shows You mistakes so You immediately bring about a solution. You say, ‘ Brother, do pratikraman.’
When pragnya shakti shows you the ‘stains’, You should say, ‘wash it off. Wash this one off. Wash this stain off.’ So he [Chandulal] wash away all the stains. When pratikraman is done, it is cleansed.
Questioner: Who is the ‘Seer’ of the past mistakes that are Seen in the samayik that we do in the Akram path? Is it the Self or the pragnya?
Dadashri: Pragnya, the energy of the Self. As long as the Self is doing work in the worldly life, it is called pragnya. The Self itself does not do anything.
Questioner: Many times, you make us sit in samayik and you tell us to recite the Trimantra. You tell us to ‘read’ (visualize in the mind), ‘Namo Arihantanam’, so is it the Self that is reading at that time? And when we read a book in satsang, when we read the Aptavani, the pure chit is doing the reading whereas that other, is read by the Self; so are the two the same?
Dadashri: The main reading by the Self is a different kind. The intent for mentioning the Self is to put You on the path. The reason for mentioning the Self is to put you on the path; it is not the sense organs (indriya) at work here. But this original Self (muda Atma) ‘Knows’ what the intellect is doing, what the mind is doing, it Knows all that. Even then, in reality it is not the original Self, it is pragnya. It is referred to as the energy of the original Self. Therefore, it knows everything. It is true that it Knows, but this cannot be considered wrong. There are no senses here. Similarly, the main Self is not completely there either. We do that just to get one on the path, therefore this is considered relative-real.
Questioner: Now, when a thought comes, how can one distinguish whether it arose from pragnya shakti or whether it came to Chandubhai?
Dadashri: No thought is of the pragnya shakti. All thoughts come to leave as discharge. Thought is a discharge. They are of the pratisthit atma, and they are of Chandubhai. Pragnya shakti just Sees what thoughts have come! Good or bad thoughts have come, it Sees that. it does not delve deeper into them. Hence thoughts become gneya (that which is to being Known). For the pragnya shakti, they are in the form of gneya. Gneya means to Know, and drashya means to See. Thoughts are gneya and drashya, and You are now Gnata (Knower) and Drashta (Seer).
Questioner: You have said that even the mind shows us just like radar. So now right how can I differentiate whether it is the mind or the pragnya showing?
Dadashri: Forget about what is now. There is only pragnya after ‘We’ give You the Gnan. Pragnya is what frees you from all the thoughts and takes you to moksha. And the energy known as ugnya, which worked through mind, which worked through intellect, takes you deeper into the sansar (worldly life). So, now You have the energy known as pragnya, so it takes You towards this side (moksha). Thoughts that are of the mind is not the work of pragnya. Do thoughts come or not?
Questioner: Yes they come. I keep Seeing them with the view as the Knower-Seer.
Dadashri: Keep Seeing them, that is all. The one who ‘Sees’ the mind, has conquered the mind, and has conquered the world. This is indeed how Lord Mahavir conquered the world. So thought is the work of the mind. You (the Self) have to keep ‘Seeing’ any thought that comes. Thoughts are not of the pragnya.
Questioner: Is there any inspiration from pragnya in there?
Dadashri: No. The mind shows a thought and we understand them in our own ‘language’. Pragnya cannot have thoughts at all. What is a thought? Thought means vikalp and thoughtlessness (nirvichar) means nirvikalp the Absolute state of the Self. This is the nirvikalp state. Therefore You have to ‘See’ whatever thought that comes, that is all. And pragnya shows You all that [the Seeing].
Questioner: Is pragnya the Seer of the mind-speech-body?
Questioner: By seeing the mind-speech-body complex, the whole day, I feel tired so who is the one that gets tired?
Dadashri: That exhaustion is the wrong effects that are felt in the mind; that effect verily gets tired, no one else is getting tired. He will not get tired at all. The ‘Seer’ cannot get tired. The one who works gets tired.
Questioner: The ‘Seer” is the pragnya (the direct light of the Self, liberating energy of Gnan), isn’t it?
Dadashri: It is indeed pragnya; it is the pragnya that is working right now, is it not? As long as all these interferences exist, pragnya will play a role. When there is no interference then the Self prevails.
Questioner: But Dada, I do get tired. Many times I feel that, when all this will stop? So when I get tired then only I will feel that way, won’t I? If it is natural (sahaj) then this will not happen, will it?
Dadashri: You are getting tired but that too it appears that way. You cannot get tired at all! The ‘Seer’ cannot get tired. The one who works may feel the exhaustion. Exhaustion cannot touch to the ‘Seer’ at all. This is his previous familiarity of getting tired; he feels that he got exhausted.
Questioner: Questioner: Why does the mind do this? Why did the speech come out like this? May be the tiredness comes from such opinions that happen within.
Dadashri: Opinions. Yes, such things do happen within.
Ugnya (the energy that takes one in worldly life) shows ways for profit-loss. It gives rise to dualities.
Questioner: You just said, ‘it gives rise to dualities’. Now what part is it that makes you say, ‘Gives rise to’?
Dadashri: That is just the words that are used.
Questioner: But is it the gross (sthool) mind that says these words?
Dadashri: No, they arise due to the intellect (buddhi). Arising does not mean like a man arises. They arise through the intellect.
Questioner: Yes. But the description you just gave is exact, is it not? You can See that it arises and You are telling us so.
Dadashri: Yes, but one cannot see what I see and tell. Hence, because of that, I have to say that they arise or how they arise. That [raising dualities, profit-loss] is not the mind; that is not the function of the mind.
Questioner: So what is the part that is Seeing ?
Dadashri: That part is pragnya, it is the main part of the Self. Everything can be Seen [through it]. Pragnya has arisen within You, but it will not work fully as long as niralumb (absolute independent state) does not happen. It is still wandering within the tubers [karmic], is it not? When these tubers are destroyed, then the work will proceed. The mind can never show any such thing.
Questioner: Now, do we have to call it as pragnya because it describes this; because it comes up to the layer of the description?
Dadashri: Yes, that itself is pragnya, and it is the part of the Self. Hence, the chit – inner component comprised of knowledge and vision, that was becoming impure, that which has separated from the Self, that itself becomes pure and works as pragnya. Only then one can ‘See’ and speak’ (joyeeney bolaya), otherwise it is not possible to speak after Seeing. And when one speaks after ‘Seeing’, there is no liability.
Questioner: The one, who speaks as he ‘Sees”, cannot hide it, cover it up or twist it, even if he wants to?
Dadashri: No he cannot. How can he? He has to say it as it is! Otherwise, on the outside, it will create a problem will it not? Instead of speaking as I See it, if I try to do something other, people will know that this is something else, this is not what it is. They may not know how to say it, but they know how to understand; that he is saying after Seeing, and this is being said without Seeing.
Questioner: Dada, what is the difference between common buddhi (intellect) and pragnya?
Dadashri: Common intellect means commonsense. It always helps you with solutions in worldly life. It opens all the locks of the worldly life, but not a single lock of moksha. Pragnya does not arise without the attainment of Atmagnan (Knowledge of the Self), or else pragnya begins upon attaining samkit (right beleif). How does pragnya begin upon the attainment of samkit? It begins like the second day of the moon (beej chandra), and here [Akram Gnan Vidhi] full pragnya arises. Then this pragnya cautions you on the way to moksha. Who keeps cautioning You again and again? Pragnya does. King Bharat had to employ someone to caution him, he had servants who would call out ‘Bharat beware, beware’, four times every fifteen minutes. Look, You do not have anyone else to caution you and that is why You have pragnya that cautions You from within.
That which verily does clash-conflict within this body, the energy of ignorance-ugnya shakti took pension a long time ago. There is no shout or scream [anymore]. There are no complaints from that side; there is no insistence from that at all. It is indeed that ugnya shakti (energy of ignorance) that keeps one wandering in the worldly life.
‘We’ sit here having become abuddha – free from intellect. Someone will say, ‘You have a lot of buddhi (intellect through ego)’. ‘We’ would tell him, ‘No, ‘we’ are abuddha (intellect sans ego)’. They ask, ‘Do you call yourself abuddha?’ I say, ‘Yes. ‘We’ really are abuddha.’ If buddhi existed, then only would show profit and loss, would it not?
‘We’ are abuddha, there is no problem, is there? ‘We’ called profit as a loss, and loss as a profit. No changes can be made for those with intellect and no changes can be made for those without intellect; vyavasthit is such. Otherwise ‘We’ too would not have become free from intellect (abuddha), had ‘We’ not understood vyavasthit. But ‘we’ know that everything is vyavasthit, so then where is the problem? Therefore ‘We’ also told you that it is vyavasthit. So, if you don’t use the intellect, you will become abuddha, and it will be fine. It was when the intellect (buddhi) went away from me, that I understood everything and what falsity was going on.
Questioner: When there is interference from the buddhi, I know (khabar padey) that buddhi – intellect has interfered. Who lets me know that? Is it Shuddhatma or pragnya shakti that lets me know that?
Dadashri: Shuddhatma does not do anything at all. Pragnya shakti indeed does that. Instead of the Shuddhatma, pragnya as its representative, does all the work, and informs [You] (janavey). And if you are going away from the Self, it (pragnya) brings You back towards the Self . Buddhi is called ugnya. Ugnya’s work is to [make sure] that you do not go off to moksha, so it keeps pulling you back right here. The duel is between ugnya and pragnya, and if You blend with ugnya, then that is it, ugnya’s work is done, [it] will become happy. Then pragnya will get tired. What can be done when the main ‘boss’ blended in [does not stand up]?
Questioner: Dada for how long will the buddhi, interfere in this way?
Dadashri: For as long as it is believed to be valuable. Say there is a crazy man in the neighborhood who comes around cursing you a few times every day. So, when he comes around, you would know that he has come to curse and so you would just continue to drink your tea and he would continue to curse. Similarly, let the buddhi come and leave; You should remain as the Self. The rest is puran-galan (filling-emptying non-Self complex). It will remain separate even if You do not say anything, and it will not refrain from coming even if you say anything.
Questioner: Are you saying that I should not listen to the buddhi when it is interfering?
Dadashri: It is very good if you do not listen to her. But you will not refrain from listening to her. Even if you tell her [intellect] not to listen, you will not refrain from doing so, will you? There is no need for buddhi if you want to go to moksha. Buddhi is necessary if you want to wander around in the worldly life (life after life). If one has not read all sorts of things and the paper is blank, then for him it will be, ‘this is Chandubhai and this is I’ that is all, that is good. So all this is discharge.
Questioner: Dada, when we know that buddhi is interfering and yet we listen to her; what can we say is happening there?
Dadashri: That is because you still have interest in listening to what the buddhi listens, but even then pragnya shakti will pull You to that [other] side.
Questioner: I recognize that buddhi is interfering and I still continue to listen to it, is that not considered obstinacy (aadai)?
Dadashri: There is nothing wrong if you keep listening to her but you do not put it into practice. Otherwise You just have to keep Seeing what buddhi is doing. There is no problem if You remain as the Self. You have lot of buddhi, but there will not be any problem because You have attained grace of Dada.
Questioner: Dada, my buddhi acts a lot but then I pacify it. I do not listen to her anymore.
Dadashri: You should not let it affect you. It was only when the buddhi went away from us; that all the problems stopped! Independence – no one can interfere thereafter.
Pragnya is the main attribute of the Self, and after the complete division of these two (elements – Self and matter, the non-Self), after they become completely disclosed, completely separate; it fits again back into the Self. Until then, it becomes separate from the Self to help take one to moksha.
Questioner: Does the unfolding of pragnya happen after complete separation and this worldly intellect (buddhi) goes away?
Dadashri: After the [complete] separation happens, buddhi ends. The experience of pragnya would have already begun, even when the separation has not happened completely. And the very meaning of the establishment of pratiti (conviction) is that pragnya has already begun on one side. Buddhi remains in its place, and pragnya arises.
Questioner: This later state of pragnya, is that considered Gnan?
Dadashri: No, pragnya is indeed a form of Gnan, it is a part of it. But as long as this body exists, it is considered pragnya, and all the work is also the doing of pragnya. And when the body is not there, it is considered the Self.
Questioner: Because the Self does not do anything, is pragnya considered its agent?
Dadashri: Yes, it is not as a doer; it carries out Gnankriya (activity of the Self to ‘See’ and ‘Know’, and keeping separation).
Questioner: Is ugnyaashakti (energy of ignorance) and buddhi (intellect) the same?
Dadashri: Yes, that is buddhi itself. But that energy manifests when buddhi and the ego come together. We call it buddhi when it is by itself, and pragnya means Gnan. When the Self is involved it is pragnyashakti (energy of the Self).
Questioner: Is pragnya much higher thing than buddhi?
Dadashri: Yes, it is higher than buddhi, but Vignan – spiritual science is much higher than pragnya. The science you know of is through the buddhi (intellect). So, are you talking about the science that is currently out there? You have understood that science in your own language. What you are referring to as ‘Vignan’, is it the same as what the world refers to as ‘Vignan’? That is the material science (Vignan) whereas ‘we’ are talking about spiritual science (Vignan).
Questioner: Ordinarily people refer to that [material] science as science.
Dadashri: But I do not call that science as science. The science (Vignan) that I am talking about is a state much higher than pragnya. It is where there is no need for buddhi at all. Pragnya arises when there is the beginning of the end of the buddhi.
Questioner: How long is there help from the intellect (buddhi)? How long is intellect helpful in spirituality?
Dadashri: Buddhi helps up to a certain point in spirituality, but it will not let you to go towards liberation – moksha.
Questioner: Yes, but to what spiritual stage does it take one?
Dadashri: Only up to the stage of understanding. Except for understanding, it will not go in the direction of the pull towards liberation. It will immediately pull one towards the worldly life again. The moment ‘one’ is pulled towards liberation, buddhi will immediately pull him towards the worldly life. Therefore the intellect is only helpful in understanding spirituality.
Questioner: But it does not help one go towards moksha.
Dadashri: It will not work at all, will it? Buddhi does not work; on the contrary buddhi will lead him astray. On the contrary, it will teach him the wrong things.
Questioner: Any person who comes to Dada, he has to first understand this Dada’s Gnan through his intellect, does he not? Does one transcend the intellect after taking Dada’s Gnan?
Dadashri: After that the control of intellect stops. Thereafter, pragnya (liberating energy and the light of the Self) takes control. It is the nature of pragnya to take You to liberation (moksha); pragnya keeps cautioning You.
The one, who comes here to understand spirituality, does not understand through the intellect. No one can understand through intellect from Me at all. This is because the words that I speak, touches your Soul (Self) after breaking the veils and then You understand. Otherwise, whatever I speak, the intellect cannot analyze at all. On the contrary, the intellect gets tired. The intellect ends up harassing you. You should not use that intellect in this. There is no need for it.
Whatever I speak, they are words that destroy the veils. So these words reach the Self after shattering the veil, and what I am saying is that accept them only if your Self agrees. And your Self does agree to this. So now intellect remains far away from this.
Questioner: So after taking Dada’s Gnan, mahatmas (those who are Self-realized through the Gnan Vidhi) want to come to Dada again and again; is it because of pragnya or the intellect?
Dadashri: It is not the function of either the intellect or pragnya. The functions of pragnya and intellect (buddhi) are different. Pragnya does play a certain role. The rest, that brings one here is his merit karma effect– punyai.
Questioner: Yes, that is correct but again will happen only if pragnya plays the role, will it not?
Dadashri: If pragnya plays the role, then all the mahatmas should come here, shouldn’t they? However, not everyone can. Do they not say, ‘My merit karma effect (punyai) falls short?’ If pragnya is responsible then everyone should be able to come, shouldn’t they?
Questioner: The intellect that we use to run the worldly life, that is called ugnya, is it not?
Dadashri: That is all ugnya.
Questioner: Dada this tug-of-war that takes place between ugnya and pragnya, only the pragnya of those with merit karma effect, will win; is that not so?
Dadashri: No. Now only the pragnya will win because Gnan given by Dada will break buddhi’s ‘legs’. So it cripples the buddhi. And it is certain that the strong pragnya cautions one repeatedly; does it not?
And people ask me, ‘Will I experience the Self?’ I tell them that it is happening every day, what other experience do You want? When we give you a little ‘beating’, does it not happen? Should we ‘beat’ you on the back?
Questioner: Even ugnya keeps working just as forcefully even with the broken leg.
Dadashri: Yes, that is how the work of that crippled one is. It jumps around more. You should tell her, ‘Be quiet and settle down, now that you have become crippled. You have obliged us for a long time, it is enough now. You sit down now.’
Questioner: Dada, I experience suffocation when all these nikali things (that are being settled), such as thoughts and everything come. Is ugnya trying to take over at that time?
Dadashri: Of course, ugnya will show its force.
Questioner: Is that why suffocation arises?
Dadashri: No, it’s not just ugnya that will do this. The mind too will do so if such things happen. On the most part it is the intellect that swells with force.
Questioner: Is jignasa (inquisitiveness; curiosity) considered a part of pragnya, or of buddhi?
Dadashri: Of the buddhi. It cannot be the pragnya, can it? One is considered to have become a Gnani if pragnya stands up. But what is the buddhi of jignasa like? It is wise intellect, it is developed and the right kind.
However many hours, the intellect (buddhi) becomes right (samyak); however pragnya cannot arise. It cannot arise without Gnan. What one considers as stitha-pragnya state, it is a state in which after certain time, the Gnan (Knowledge of or as the Self) reaches a certain level when one sees the light. That is in the Kramic path. And here (in the Akram path), pragnya arises the moment ‘we’ give the Gnan. Even if one has not attained the Gnan, he attains the right buddhi (samyak buddhi) by just sitting with ‘us’.
Pragnya is the direct light (of the Self) and samyak buddhi is an indirect light. Therefore, pragnya is directly a part of the Self. Samyak buddhi is not like that. Nevertheless it too will have to be settled with.
Questioner: But samyak buddhi is beneficial, is it not?
Dadashri: It is beneficial as long as one has not reached the ‘station’ (Gnan of the Self). Once having reached the station, it is not needed to proceed forward.
Questioner: But samyak buddhi does not remain after attaining Gnan or does it?
Dadashri: Pragnya arises after Gnan is attained. Thereafter, pragnya helps to settle it with equanimity. Hence, there is tremendous difference between samyak buddhi and pragnya. Samyak buddhi is just intellect, whereas pragnya is a part of a permanent thing ( the Self).
Questioner: Can samyak buddhi be considered paudgalik (non-Self complex that fills and empties)? That indeed is one part, is it not?
Dadashri: It cannot be considered part of the pudgal (non-Self complex), because pudgal does not have any light. However dim light there is; it is light after all. But it is neither of the Chetan (the Self) nor the pudgal.
However, the scriptures have called it Chetan, but there can be no Chetan in it. If you call this (the pudgal) Chetan, then that other (real) Chetan- the Self, will not be found. Now, it is so written with a relative perspective. People cannot understand the relative perspective. People do not have the capacity to understand to this level. I can understand that it is written from the relative view.
Questioner: What is the main difference between samyak buddhi and pragnya?
Dadashri: That buddhi means buddhi. As long as the buddhi (intellect) is there, its owner is there. Buddhi comes with ownership. Pragnya does not have any owner. Even wrong (viparit) buddhi has an owner. Even samyak buddhi – right intellect – has an owner.
Questioner: One may have samyak buddhi – the right intellect with an owner, can that intellect cause harm or would it show only the right things?
Dadashri: Definitely, it will cause harm too. There is no telling when the buddhi would turn. Being devoted to the right (samyak), there is no telling when it will turn and be devoted to the wrong (viparit). And what does samyak buddhi mean? Samyak buddhi cannot arise in the worldly life. When one hears the words from the Gnani Purush, his buddhi becomes right (samyak). Yes, after that such buddhi does not do any attacking or any such thing. Buddhi that does not attack is called samyak buddhi), and buddhi that attacks in every situation is called viparit buddhi.
This attack (of buddhi) comes like the attack of the heart. Does buddhi not have an attack? Chandubhai (File one) used to be hardheaded, had You not seen that?
Questioner: I did. Attacks did come, but I could not see them. It wasn’t till I came to you that an ‘Xray’ was taken and I realized what it is all like within.
Dadashri: Yes, that is true. Only then can one come to Know. Until it is Seen (joyoon), he would only believe the non-Self to be of the Self and under the ownership of the Self. What difference can there be between the two? What’s wrong with it? The way it is everywhere, is the same here. Furthermore, divisions of ‘this is good’ and ‘this is bad’ have been made. Here (in Akram) there is no such thing as right or wrong, is there? Here there are things that take You towards the eternal (sanatan). From that which is useless (mithya), the talks here, all worldly interaction (vyavahar) here, takes You towards the eternal. When You See this, You will realize that this is something different; it is not like that other.
Questioner: Does samyak buddhi not make one make mistakes?
Dadashri: It will not incite one to attack.
Questioner: And awakened awareness (jagruti) shows mistakes?
Dadashri: Jagruti will show everything. It will show anything that comes and goes within. It is a part of absolute Knowledge (keval Gnan). Until jagruti arises, the world is sleeping with open eyes.
Questioner: Pragnya cautions, so how does samyak buddhi help?
Dadashri: It works in the same way, but it itself is destructible (vinashi), is it not? Therefore, it cannot give any significant caution.
Questioner: It simply keeps the awareness of the beneficial and the harmful; that is all.
Dadashri: It is that same buddhi, like the worldly buddhi. Nevertheless, if you continue to sit with the Gnani Purush, that buddhi will become right (samyak). The buddhi will continue to become right. Otherwise only Gnan can be samyak – but this intellect will become right. Avyabhicharini buddhi – right intellect [intellect that does not take the wrong path] can even make a non-peaceful situation into a peaceful one; a stage before the coming of pragnya.
Questioner: There is pragnya and stithapragnya – please explain stithapragnya?
Dadashri: To become still in the understanding in what one believes the right way of knowing the Self, is called Stithapragnya.
Questioner: Through the word ‘pragnya’, I am led to the scriptures that give knowledge about the Self, and to acquire that knowledge, and then pragnya will arise. But you just said that ‘pragnya’ is a natural attribute.
Dadashri: That pragnya is natural, is it not? This stithapragnya is a different thing.
Questioner: With ‘I am Chandubhai’ ignorant state has happened. And then when I come to you and you tell me, ‘You are Shuddhatma’, that causes stithapragnya.
Dadashri: Not even stithapragnya, it is something beyond the state of stithapragnya. Stithapragnya is a state that arises when it comes closer to pragnya. It is a state, which is a witnessing state (in sakshibhaav) in the worldly life.
Pragnya arises only after attaining the Self. And stithapragyna state happens before becoming the Self. In worldly interaction it is present with ego. But is it is a very good worldly interaction.
Questioner In the Kramic path, they refer to pragnya as the intellect – buddhi – becoming still in the Self, but does that pragnya mean ‘Knowing-Seeing – Gnata-Drashta – in our Akram path?
Dadashri: It is indeed the Self. It is a part of the Self, and on the outside, that stilled buddhi is the state of stithpragnya, not pragnya. So it is a state where one’s intellect becomes still.
When stithapragnya happens, ugnyashakti (energy of intellect and ego) can sometimes take over. It can also go away with the help of stithapragnya, but in stithapragnya state, there is also the danger of it [ugnyashakti] taking over. There is no fear after pragnashakti arises.
Questioner: Therefore, does this state of stithapragnya arise when one comes out of the stithaugnya state?
Dadashri: No, it is the buddhi that has become still. Ugnya (energy of intellect and ego) is restless. Hence, the one whose buddhi has become still, such is stithapragnya. Otherwise, pragnya is not there at all, it is a stithapragnya state. However, they will call it pragnya, but it is relevant to the Kramic path. This pragnya – it is a pure part of the Self that becomes separate.
Questioner: The Self and the self (pratisthit atma) cannot be divided into parts, can they?
Dadashri: On the contrary, one will get confused. When there is the energy to hold and retain everything, then it is known through its parts. That much awareness is necessary, is it not? Awareness should be maintained from all sides. ‘We’ know every fraction of it.
Questioner: Can you please still explain this stithapragnya in more details?
Dadashri: When a human being studies all the scriptures a lot, serves saints, works very hard in his business and incurs a loss, he rises through all kinds of experiences, wanders around and then when his buddhi becomes still, it is called stithapragnya. His buddhi becomes still. It is not affected no matter from which side the wind blows. When the buddhi becomes still like that, it is called stithapragnya.
Stithapragna is a state of awareness of extreme right discretion (sadvivek). One progresses higher as he experiences through this state. The state of King Janakvidehi was even higher than stithapragnya.
Pragnashakti is much higher than stithapragnya. In stithapragnya, worldly interactions are ideal. Secondly, there is no criticism by others – such a one can consider his state to be one of stithapragnya. But this pragnya, it will indeed take one to moksha, whereas stithapragna will still need a path ahead to go to moksha.
Questioner: So, is the stithapragnya state, a state before pragnya?
Dadashri: It is a state before pragnya, but people have elevated it (stithapragnya) to a much higher level. It is a lower state. Pragnya arises thereafter. First stithapragnya keeps arising, and then pragnya arises afterwards.
Questioner: So then a question arises for me that, after developing pragnya and becoming still in it is called stithapragnya, is it (stithapragnya) a state after that (pragnya)?
Dadashri: No, it is not a state after that. It is a state before that (before pragnya). When stithapragnya happens, it means that one has become still for sure. This stithapragnya means that pragnya arises fractionally at a time and one becomes still in it. But when ‘we’ give Gnan, complete pragnya arises.
Against the stithapragnya state, there is a stithaugnya state. ‘I am Chandubhai. I am his uncle etc.’, that is all a stithaugnya state. When stithaugnya leaves and pragnya arises, there is no pain in pragnya because one becomes the sufferer of his own eternal bliss.
Questioner: Is this the same state referred to as stithapragnya in the Geeta?
Dadashri: This state is much higher than stithapragnya.
Questioner: Higher than that?
Dadashri: This is much higher state. It is a wonderful state. It is the same state as Lord Krishna had. This is a kshayak samkit state (permanent attainment of ‘I am the Soul’; permanent conviction of the right belief, ‘I am pure Soul’) state. Lord Krishna had the kshayak samkit state, so his whole mithyatva (deluded; wrong belief, ‘I am Krishna’) vision was gone. Samyak drashti means the vision of the Self only, had arisen.
Hence, all this is higher. Stithapragnya is a much lower state. But people never understood stithaspragnya.
Even stithapragnya has not happened. People think it is stithapragnya because they feel, ‘I am Shuddhatma’, they become still in that for a short while and then it goes away, that is stithapragnya. One tries to become still in pragnya and then he wanders off. He cannot constantly remain still in pragnya, can he? He cannot grasp the whole science, can he? Because, it is after learning all the four Vedas, the Vedas themselves say, ‘This is not that, this is not that’. If this is not that, then what is it? They will tell you, ‘Go to a Gnani’. Because how can you put in words that which is inexpressible (avaktavya) and indescribable (avarnaniya)? How can the Self (Soul) be put in words? That is why it is considered inexpressible and indescribable.
Questioner: What is the language of a stithapragnya? What does he eat and drink?
Dadashri: This stithapragnya is a high state, higher language, and just look; one even says wrong things about it! What does one eat? What has eating and drinking got to do with this state? Because the eater (khanaar) is completely separate. The eater is completely separate from the One who has become free, and is completely separate from the one who is bound. The eater is also separate form the one who desires to be free; so then what does the one who is stithapragnya have to do with the eater? Who would disclose such subtle and profound talks? Would anyone do so? What do you think? Is he separate or not?
Questioner: He is separate.
Dadashri: The ‘eater’ is indeed separate. That is why ‘We-Gnani Purush Dadashri and Dada Bhagwan’ made the separation. So there is no problem. ‘We’ do not have problem with what you eat. Then, one will ask, ‘Can we wear clothes?’ Wear first class clothes if you want. It is the body that wears them, does it not? ‘Can we wear earrings?’ Wear what you want to, even earrings. ‘We’ say this after Seeing that ‘we’ are separate like that, otherwise ‘We’ would not disclose this fact, would ‘We’?’ This is so because this body is separate from the One who has become free. The one eating, drinking, taking tea, sipping tastefully, stroking the moustache, all are separate. They are all separate also from the one who is bound. The one who is bound would not do all these things, would he? The bound one knows the bondage. The one who knows bondage and experiences bondage is called bound. All these people cannot be called bound, can they? They do not even know that they are bound.
Stithapragnya is a word of worldly interaction.
When one does not feel fear in any situation – that is how still the buddhi ( intellect) becomes. It is a part of the buddhi. Buddhi has reached to the level of stithapragnya; [but] pragnya has not arisen yet. Every living being is in the ugnya (absence of Knowledge of the Self) state.
When Lord Krishna referred to the stithapragnya state is a state lower than pragnya.
Questioner: Is stithapragnya a lower state?
Dadashri: It is a state lower than pragnya. Stithapragnya state means it is gradually attained through buddhi. Now which buddhi is that? It is avyabhicharini buddhi (virtuous, decent). Lord Krishna has referred to two kinds of intellects (buddhis). Vyabhicharini (adulterous, indecent) and avyabhicharini. Avyabhicharini buddhi begins to become still; presently it is indeed unsteady. Not still means emotional. It starts to become still, day by day. Just as when 97, 98, 99 percent becomes 100 percent, it is considered the main thing; completion happens. It is called hundred percent. This stithapragnya state is hundred percent-total stillness of the buddhi, and pragnya is the absolute thing, the main thing indeed.
Questioner: Please explain that stithapragnya state is not a state of the experience of the Self.
Dadashri: When pragnya arises completely, then experience of the Self happens. As long as the adjective of stitha (still) is there, the experience cannot be there. But when the adjective goes away and pragnya remains; that is the state of the experience [of the Self].
Buddhi (intellect) that becomes still is called stithapragnya. Such a person, is not moved by effects. And when the adjective goes away, it is called pragnya, and in that final stage there is the experience of the Self. Till ninety-nine percent it is stithapragnya, and when it becomes one hundred percent; it is pragnya.
Questioner: Arjun says, “Nashto moha, smrutilabdha, sthitosmi – I am now steady, because my illusory attachment is destroyed, and the awareness has been attianed”.
Dadashri: Yes. But he has become still, has he not?
Questioner: Yes, so what I want to know is how?
Dadashri: For the one in whom when these following attributes happen; the one whose moha (illusory attachment) is destroyed, that is the sign of becoming still. The other thing that helps within is that, smrutilabdha– becoming aware of the Self, happened. That is the second help. It is becoming still due to all these reasons, and will remain at least somewhat still. From that point on it is called a stithapragnya state, if it can remain still like that. However, he says that his moha is gone. That is considered a high state.
Questioner: Here, ordinarily, everyone’s situation is like a spinning top, and Arjun too was a human being and he is saying ‘stithosmi’. It is said in there that he tells Lord Krisha, ‘Oh infallible (achyuta) One, I have become still through Your grace’. So is this a contradiction for human beings?
Dadashri: He became free from being the spinning top and came into the real (the Self), in spite of having the prakruti. That is because his belief was that, ‘This is I’, he was in dehadhyas (false belief, ‘I am this body’). That belief was completely destroyed. It is because moha was destroyed and the belief came into, ‘I am This (the Self)’. Prakruti – the non-Self complex is restless and the Self is still. Therefore, the belief that was in the ‘restless’ (non-Self) is gone and the belief has arisen in that which is ‘still’ (the Self), and so he has become still.
How many mistakes of their own, can people see?
Questioner: One cannot see his own mistake if pragnya is absent.
Dadashri: Yes. And then some one also asks, ‘Is my state that of stithapragnya?’ I said, ‘Why did you have to ask? Do you have any doubt in it? If you have a doubt, then know that yours is a stithaugnya state.’ So there is no falsehood regarding the other side. He is already gone to the north. Just because he has not reached the North Pole, does that mean that South Pole is gone?
Questioner: Please explain what is stithaugnya.
Dadashri: One believes and derives happiness and joy in only that which is uGnan – ignorance of the Self. He is still in only that. If he becomes restless in uGnan, then we can say that he has made progress. What has he made progress in if he becomes unstill in ignorance? He is considered to have advanced towards pragnya.
Questioner: There is something that is way beyond the stithapragnya state, please explain that.
Dadashri: Stithapragnya is such a state that on the way to Vaikuntha (a state where all wandering chit tendencies end. Traditional meaning: heavenly abode of Lord Vishnu). Lord Krishna’s Vaikunth is – as one listens to Lord Krishna’s talk, as one progress in his study of the Gita, the intellect (buddhi) becomes still, and the one whose intellect becomes still, the Lord calls them stithapragnya. There is a lot more to be known beyond that. Here, [as stithapragna] he becomes eligible to receive the visa.
Questioner: Hence, is it shuddha samkit (pure right vision) and paramartha samkit (absolute right vision) ?
Dadashri: No. It is not shuddha samkit. It is samkit that is lower than the shuddha samkit. One may even do negative if he encounters negative circumstances. But because his intellect has become still, he will not be swayed.
Yes, so when is it considered to be samkit? It is when the negative does not enter. No circumstance can shake him; that is when it is called samkit. Whereas the one in stithapragnya state, can be shaken up by circumstances. Therefore, he has fear. Wisdom comes after the intellect becomes still; wisdom of a very high level comes. Presently, there are few people whose intellect has become still; very few indeed. There can be one or two such people in India, but alas otherwise not even that.
Questioner: Had the pragnya of the ones with stithapragnya not become established?
Dadashri: No. It is not possible to attain stithapragnya state in this current time era. It happens in Satyug (era of the time cycle of unity in thoughts, speech and activities). In the current era of the time cycle, when one’s daughter goes to college and does not come home at night, one would think that she got married and that is why she did not come home. So tell me, how can the intellect become still? Whereas in those days [Satyug]; they would not get married. It didn’t used to be like this. No problems would come. How can the intellect become still nowadays? The daughter may get married any time [without notice]. Any time the young wife may ask for divorce. How can man’s intellect remain still in such times? It cannot. It is the magnificent fortune of Akram Vignan that has blessed everyone. Fifty thousand people have been blessed. There may be more or less, but they have been tremendously blessed for sure.
Questioner: Is stithapragnya an attribute of the ego?
Dadashri: There can be ego and stithapragnya also arises; both can be present together.
Questioner: Or it may not even be there?
Dadashri: No, it is not like that; it would indeed be there.
Questioner: Please tell us about the line of demarcation between stithapragnya and vitarag (absolutely without abhorrence and therefore without attachment).
Dadashri: Stithapragnya means, in the presence of the ego, the intellect has extracted the essence and non-essence of the worldly life and has becomes still; that is stithapragnya. Stithprgagna state is considered a state of discretion (vivek). It understands the distinction between the essence and non-essence.
Questioner: And is there no presence of the ego in the state of vitaragata?
Dadashri: No. Once the essence and non-essence is realized, then one is on his way towards vitaragata – state beyond any abhorrence or attachment. So one has made the bottom line assessment that there is no pleasure in this worldly life, but it is in the presence of the ego. He has now found the path ahead; it has already begun.
Now, we, here, do not have stithapragnya; we have pragnya. So stithapragnya is with ego, and pragnya is without the ego. Therefore, one attains the Self a long time after he attains the stithapragnya state, whereas pragnya, in a very few life times, in one or two lifetimes will take one to moksha.
Questioner: So then what is the difference between stithapragnya and vitarag?
Dadashri: Tremendous difference. Stithapragnya means that one becomes still by thinking everything through his buddhi. And when it becomes still, one can bring about solutions to his problems. But that is called stithapragnya. So stithapragnya is nothing but stillness of the intellect.
Questioner: But in that too, it is said that there is just as much lack of attachment-abhorrence (raag-dwesh) as there is in a vitarag.
Dadashri: No, it is not a state without raag-dwesh. But it will bring about solution to every question. So it will not do any raag-dwesh towards anyone. Who would do raag-dwesh when he finds a solution? It is all through buddhi. Stillness of avyabhicharini buddhi (virtuous intellect) is called stithapragnya. It is the one whose buddhi has become still; people’s buddhi is not still. Buddhi that has become still is called stithapragnya, because it has increased further and further from the state of ugnya and proceeds to reach all the way to pragnya.
He still needs to study vitaragata; he has to study the path of the vitarag. When he attains the vitarag path, vitaragata will slowly increase. Hence after coming to the station of stithapragnya, the attribute of vitaragata keeps increasing.
Questioner: And is stithapragna associated with kindness (daya) or compassion (karuna)?
Dadashri: Yes, it is associated with kindness. There is no compassion. No one except the vitarag Lord has compassion (karuna). What does karuna mean? It means there is neither raag (attachment), nor dwesh (abhorrence). There is no raag towards a mouse to save it, or dwesh towards the cat, that is called karuna.
Questioner: The discoveries the scientists make, are they done through pragnya or the intellect (buddhi)?
Dadashri: No, they have the vision (darshan). There can never be a scientist without a vision. It is a natural vision. Help from nature is indeed his vision.
Questioner: All the saints like Akha Bhagat in the past, did they have pragnya or not?
Dadashri: No. That is called vision (darshan). It is not called pragnya. It can be called pragnya only after one attains the Self. In the worldly terms they refer to it as pragnya, but worldly will not do here, will it? What good is worldly? No one will pay for anything worldly there.
Questioner: When certain thoughts come, I respond with ‘ all this is wrong on your part’. Now who is the one saying this? There was nothing there before meeting you, so then who is the one guiding us like this? Is it pragnya or the buddhi?
Dadashri: Pragnya warns You, because You have now attained the visa to moksha. Then if one suppresses that pragnya through the ego, he will act crazy again.
Questioner: When this pragnya warns from within, does it do so through the mind, the intellect, the chit or through the ego?
Dadashri: When pragnya cautions, it cautions the ego, nothing else.
Questioner: But does it warn directly or what?
Dadashri: Directly. Nothing else has the right to do so, does it? There is no one above the ego. Even though the ego does not have a superior over it, it still does what the intellect says, all day long.
Questioner: What does the buddhi do when pragnya warns the ego? Does the buddhi then remains aloof?
Dadashri: What does the buddhi have to do with it? Buddhi does not arise at all.
Questioner: Nothing then?
Dadashri: It is not the work of buddhi, is it?
Questioner: Existence of buddhi does not remain when pragnya arises, does it?
Dadashri: So the buddhi will help him later, depending upon what the ego tells it.
Questioner: Oh! So does the buddhi also make everything right?
Dadashri: Thereafter they all get together and make things right. Not just the intellect (buddhi); all of them.
Questioner: In the samayik this morning, your niddhidhyasan (contemplation with visualization) was happening everywhere, what is that? I understand that as the shuddha chit ( pure chit).
Dadashri: No, that is all the work of pragnashakti. Pure chit is the Self itself. Shuddhatma is indeed shuddha chidrupa (pure Knowledge and pure Vision ) Pragnya is doing all that.
Questioner: I see Dada sitting everywhere, what is that?
Dadashri: That indeed is the pragnya. Ugnyashakti (energy of ignorance) will show you other things; it will show you money, women etc. Ugnyashakti gives you niddhidhyasan of women, and pragnya will give you niddhidhyasan of the Gnani Purush. Gnain Purush means niddhidhyasan of the Self.
Questioner: Now, is it ugnya department if the niddhidhyasan of a woman arises after attaining the Gnan?
Dadashri: It is the part of that Chandubhai, what have You to give or take with it?
Questioner: No, so where is the function of the chit in this?
Dadashri: That is the part of Chandubhai; it is impure chit (ashuddha chit).
Questioner: So where is the function of the chit in the niddhidhyasan of Gnani Purush that pragnya gives us?
Dadashri: There is no need for the chit in that. Pragnashakti itself can See.
Questioner: Are we talking about this as exact photography?
Dadashri: Yes, exact. Better than photography. Photography cannot capture so beautifully. Dreams are even better than photographs, and even better than the direct presence, it comes even better in dreams.
Questioner: There is no need for the chit at all.
Dadashri: Pure chit that was there, it became one with the Self. It merged into the Self.
Questioner: Then who is the Seer of niddhidhyasan?
Dadashri: That is pragnashakti.
Questioner: It is the One indeed that Sees, and verily the One that holds (dharan ) it?
Dadashri: It indeed is everything. All the activities are hers [pragnya]. There is no need of chit there at all. As long as the chit is impure (ashuddha), it can see everything of the worldly life. Impure chit is not able to see anything related to the pure (shuddha). Hence, when the chit becomes pure, it becomes one with the Self. Then what remains? Then nothing remains in the middle. Pragnashakti continues to work, that is all. If there is interference, even the pure chit will start deteriorating. If there is darkness (ignorance of the Self), then it will continue to deteriorate. So where can we get it repaired again? There are no factories for it. And we will not have to repair pragnashakti. When that, which is not [eternal], if left alone, spoils, it has to be repaired. If that which is not, spoils, then it will need to be repaired. Therefore, there is no need for anything in the middle. All the activities are carried out by pragnya.
Questioner: Does pragnya arise when the chit becomes pure?
Dadashri: When chit becomes pure, that is when it merges with Shuddhatma. Thereafter begins the energy of pragnya. Shuddha (pure) chit is itself shuddha chidrupa atma – the pure Vision and Knowledge Self.
Questioner: This niddhidhyasan of the Gnani Purush which prevails, you call it pragnya. So then you also say that however much one can maintain the niddhidhyasan, that much purer the chit becomes, do you not?
Dadashri: Chitshuddhi (purification of chit) has already happened, has it not?
Questioner: It has become complete at its core, but what becomes of that impure (ashuddha) chit?
Dadashri: Impure chit will take care of all the worldly activities. Do mind-intellect-chit and ego interfere in the pure chit any day? They will interfere if the chit is impure, not if it is pure. If there is a third person, interference will happen. Is there any interference? Go ahead and do the niddhidhyasan some day and [tell me].
Questioner: Whose interference is there in the process of the niddhidhyasan?
Dadashri: That is the unfolding karma (udaya karma).
Questioner: Because, if pragnya has its own independent department, then pragnya has arisen within all the mahatmas, and yet for our mahatmas after Gnan …
Dadashri: Gnan does not arise equally in all. It all depends on one’s capacity. Then he can follow the Five Agnas accordingly.
Questioner: So you say that it expresses according to one’s capacity? Why is that?
Dadashri: But of course. His nischayabada (the energy as the Self that is different from the power of the decision of the self) etc, should be there, no? Is it not different for everyone? It is different for everyone. It is different for him, it is different for you; it is different for everyone, is it not?
Questioner: But, complete pure (shuddha) chit has happened in all these people (Mahatmas-recipients of the Gnan Vidhi); is that what you are saying?
Dadashri: Yes, only then will one attain the Self !
Questioner: So then if pure chit became completely pure, then will that much pragnya arise?
Dadashri: Yes. The Self becomes pure (shuddha) when ‘We’ give Gnan, and so pragnya will indeed arise. Thereafter, in the energy of the Self [awakened Self] for following the five Agnas; to whatever level there exists interference (bhanjghad) by that much will be his loss of benefit.
Questioner: So, to whatever extent the following of the Agnas happens, that much corresponding blossoming of the energy of pragnya?
Dadashri: Yes, that nischayabada ( the driving energy of the awakened Self that is different from the ego based strength of the separated self ) etc, should be there.
Questioner: But whose nischayabada is in that?
Dadashri: Everything is of the Self [awakened Self] indeed .
Questioner: One makes the nischaya (firm decision) himself, and then he himself becomes strong in it, is it like that? I did not understand that.
Dadashri: When impure chit (ashuddha chit) and mind (mana) and such else, exercise dominance nischaybada ceases. In this level, the lesser of the one, the stronger of the other, prevails. All these will interfere (do dakho), no? If you are sitting in dhyan (meditating as the Self) in solitude, what happens if people create a ruckus and a commotion (ho ho) outside? Similarly when external noise and commotion happens, for the one for whom there is greater interference, that one will not succeed.
Questioner: That is very correct. If the external commotion becomes less, then…
Dadashri: ‘We’ do not have any external commotion, so do ‘We’ have any problem? And you will become restless even if there were commotion from just three people. Nothing like ‘they are doing it to me’ touches me at all. That is how I sit; I would not sit on the outside, would I? And I do not even have the desire to do so. If you have the desire to sit outside, then go ahead and sit outside with three people and join in the commotion ([+)+] ‘I’ sit in my own ‘room’ and [join dramatically] doing ‘ho ho’. When would I ever be done with so many people?
Questioner: You skillfully slip into your own ‘room’.
Dadashri: Indeed ‘I’ remain seated within. ‘I’ do not come out at all. It is indeed a mistake if you feel that ‘I’ come out, if at times you see a shadow. In reality, it is not ‘I’.
Questioner: That is true. You do not come out even when we pull you.
Dadashri: If I were to come out [of the Self], then who would go this man’s house? Does he [Dada] not come to your house at five in the morning? So that is for always, isn’t it? Even those in America will say ‘Dada comes to my house too’. It is a fact that Dada goes there, is it not?
Questioner: Yes, but who is it that goes there?
Dadashri: But it is a fact that he goes there, is it not?
Questioner: People do experience that. I don’t know whether he goes from here or not, but they feel that he does. What is that?
Dadashri: It is all energy; it is a tremendous energy of pragnya.
Questioner: We remember (do smaran of) Dada, and Dada comes to our home and blesses us, what is that? What is that phenomenon? Is it some kind of a process?
Dadashri: All that goes into the process of pragnya.
Questioner: We think of Dada and Dada comes, is it a part or the whole of you that comes?
Dadashri: It is all the work of pragnya. The Dada that comes within memory is the same as the Self. It is indeed your own Self that becomes Dada and does the work. So that is dependent upon one’s own bhaav (deep inner view-devotion), and that bhaav has to be of pragnya. Someone will say that even uGnani (non-Self-realised) can see his Guru. That is purity of the chit.
Questioner: So is it the pragnya shakti that is doing the work from your side? When one experiences that Dada has come to him, is it of your pragnya shakti or is it his pragnya shakti?
Dadashri: It is from this very pragnashakti. It is the pragnashakti of the one ‘going’.
Questioner: What does ‘the one going’ mean?
Dadashri: It is the pragnashakti of the ‘one’ who goes to his house; it is his.
Questioner: The one whose house he goes to, it is his imagination otherwise that is how it appears to him – so then it is his own, is it not? It is when he informed you that we knew that you had gone there.
Dadashri: He must have such inner intent-devotion (bhaav) that is why it all comes together. It does not take long for that energy; if the other person has the bhaav, then the energy will reach, it can even reach all the way to America from here.
Questioner: So this pragnashakti of Yours is vitarag. It is pulled towards the one who does the bhaav.
Dadashri: It will be pulled. What else? It will be pulled towards the one whose bhaav is strong.
Questioner: Would you know when it is pulled?
Dadashri: Why would I keep a track of it?
Questioner: No, but would you know even if you didn’t pay attention?
Questioner: Would it not reflect in your Gnan?
Dadashri: It would reflect provided ‘We’ paid attention to it. But why would we pay attention on that side? There are films of so many people, when would I [have the time to] pay attention to them and when would my work be done?
Questioner: There is no need to do that; it just needs to be ‘Seen’.
Dadashri: On the contrary, it will arouse interest in it. It will create a habit. There is no need for ‘us’ to See that film. If a film had to be seen, would I not go to the movie theatre and see it? At least the movie would be over in three hours but this movie would never let go of me.
Questioner: Does pragnashakti have any control over file number one?
Dadashri: No, no control.
Questioner: Now, when I say, ‘Chandubhai, pay more attention in this’, who says that to Chandubhai? At that time when this worldly interaction happens, is that of intellect (buddhi), of the ego, or of pragnya?
Dadashri: It is worldly interaction activity; it is of both: the ego and the intellect.
Questioner: Is there any pragnya in it?
Dadashri: No pragnya. Pragnya is the One that says that settlement with equanimity needs to be done, that is pragnya.
Questioner: But the intellect and the ego play a role in it, then that activity (kriya) is under the control of vyavasthit, is it not?
Dadashri: It is indeed based on vyavasthit, You do not any responsibility.
Questioner: When ‘I’ tell ‘Chandubhai’, is this ‘I’ not the pragnya telling ‘Chandubhai’?
Dadashri: Yes it is indeed the pragnya saying that. ‘I’ is pragnya.
Questioner: Then, does the rest of the activity happen based on vyavasthit?
Dadashri: Yes, based on vyavasthit. But when done by vyavasthit, if the hand ends up hitting someone, You have to say, ‘Chandubhai, you did atikraman (did aggression), so do pratikraman, that is all’. And that remains on the safe side. If he is hurt slightly, there is no problem. But, when he does pratikraman, then You do not have anything to give or take with it.
Questioner: Who settles a file with equanimity?
Dadashri: Pragnashakti. That is what cautions, it settles the files; it does all that.
Questioner: I asked because there is also the file of Chandubhai. Otherwise, is it not that Chandubhai sees all the files?
Dadashri: That cannot happen, can it? Chandubhai does not have any give or take in it. Pragnashakti keep settling the files with equanimity, and it also cautions. If any mistake happens, it cautions. It is not Chandubhai that cautions. Chandubhai is the one with mistakes. Even the Self does not caution. The Self will not get in the business of cautioning. Hence pragnya is doing all this work; it settles files with equanimity.
Questioner: Who makes the decision (nischaya)? Does file number one make that decision?
Dadashri: Only You will have to make the decision! ‘You’ (the awakened Self) have to make the decision.
Questioner: So is it the Shuddhatma (pure Soul; the Self) that makes the decision?
Dadashri: No, no, not the pure Soul, it is its pragnashakti. Pragnashakti (the liberating energy of the Self) will not refrain from making You make the decision. One makes the decision at the very time he attains Gnan.
Questioner: Dada says that, ‘There is nothing about following the Agna in this. You make a firm decision that You want to stay in Agna, that’s it, leave everything else to me.’ This is what You are saying, isn’t it?
Dadashri: You just have to follow the Agna. You don’t need to see whether it happened according to the Agna or not. You just decide that You want to follow the Agnas, that is all.
Questioner: So with regards to making a decision (nischaya), You are saying that we are not to do anything. And then You are saying that we should do the nischaya.
Dadashri: Those are only words; such are words. Dramatic words; there is no doer ship in that.
Questioner: Yes, it is just for the sake of communication. But this decision, who makes that decision?
Questioner: But when Gnan did not exist, it was the ego making the decision; pragnya was not making decision at the time.
Dadashri: That is correct. It was not the ego, but rather ugnya (energy of ignorance) was doing it. And now pragnya is making the decision. Ugnya – ignorance makes all the decisions for the uGnani (the one without Gnan), and pragnya makes decision for the one who has attained this Gnan. Ugnya and pragnya, they are both energies. Ugnya is the wrong belief and pragnya is the right belief.
Questioner: Is it more correct to say that one should maintain nischaya rather than say one should do the nischaya?
Dadashri: To do or maintain, whichever is used, You are to do follow that which accomplishes Your goal. It is not a question of using the word ‘do’ or ‘maintain’; that is not the question.
Questioner: Does pragnya make the decision, or does it make one do the decision?
Dadashri: It makes the decision (nischaya), it makes You make the decision; it is the same thing. There is no difference.
Questioner: So then we can also say that it makes one make the nischaya, makes one maintain the nischaya.
Dadashri: Yes, you can say that. It is all the same. By over analyzing, by doing the postmortem, it will get spoiled unnecessarily. You will lose the intent behind what we are trying to tell you. Do not over analyze. Simply understand that this is done by pragnya and this is done by ugnya. That is all. [Otherwise] the intellect (buddhi) will show you all kinds of disguises.
Questioner: Who maintains the awareness of what is trustworthy and what is not?
Dadashri: It is all the work of pragnashakti (energy of the Self), but when the pragnashakti is not active, then that discharge ego is doing all the work. So when it is doing that, You (the awakened Self) have to ‘See’ what he is absorbed (tanmayakar) in! Instead of remaining one with pragnya, he becomes absorbed in that other, the non-Self, he slips. If the jagruti – awakened awareness as the Self is there, One will remain in pragnya. Having entered into that other (the non-Self), ajagruti – unawareness prevails.
Questioner: Having received this Gnan form You, he does want to remain in jagruti (awakened and aware).
Dadashri: He would have such a desire, but the jagruti will not remain, because of the old habit. That old habit makes him slip into that other side (the non-Self). But the one who has strong inner intent-view (bhaav), will call him back, even if he slips, ‘Hey, don’t you go there.’ He (the awakened one) will know that, will he not?
Questioner: Please explain more clearly about being absorbed in the pragnya.
Dadashri: To remain sincere. Who are You sincere to? Now, remain sincere to pragnya if You want to attain moksha (final liberation). If you want to stroll around for pleasure-pain then go there – the non-Self world -for a little while. Right now, it is a different matter if unfolding of karma takes you there. Even when the force of the unfolding karma drags you there, You should stay on this side—the Self. You should maintain your efforts to reach the shore, even if the river current pulls you on that other side. Should You not attempt to reach the shore? Or should you get pulled in whichever way it pulls you?
Questioner: So if one’s nischaya (decision) is strong then he will remain sincere, will he not?
Dadashri: If it is firm decision then only he will be able to hold on. But what about the one who does not have the nischaya? He will go wherever the river pulls him, and the shore will be left behind. And you should make an effort to reach the shore. The river will pull you away, and you should make a strong effort towards the shore. Whatever little you move towards the shore is good. You will reach the ground.
So through this science (Vignan), the pragnashakti that cautions in moksha (the liberated State); arises. After this, one should remain positive. He should not harbor any negativity. Positive means that you should be happy with it. Everyone maintains positivity and they do not let any worldly difficulties affect them. If one remains proper, everything within will get settled in such a way that it will not touch him. This is because in the ignorant state, when one had not attained the Self, one had not really attained God, even then the worldly life was going on fine, so then will it be ruined after attaining of the Self? Of course, it will not ruin.
Questioner: Thereafter, does pragnya caution the pratisthit atma (relative self)?
Dadashri: Yes, it cautions the part that is the ego in the relative self (pratishtit atma). It is the part that wants to become free. There is the ego of becoming bound, and the ego of wanting to become free. It cautions the ego that wants to be free.
Questioner: So, that means that it is actually cautioning Chandubhai, does it not?
Dadashri: No, it cautions the ego. The owner of the name ‘Chandubhai’; the ego. There are two kinds of egos. One is the ego that gave rise to all this, and that ego is gone. The ego that is trying to become free…
Questioner: It (pragnya) cautions that one.
Dadashri: Yes. So it helps the ego that is trying to become free. However everyone indeed has the ego of wanting to be free, but until pragnya arises, who will caution? Therefore he remain entangled.
Questioner: The pragnya within cautions us whenever a mistake is being made. The opposing intent, ‘this should not happen’ that arises within towards a mistake, who shows that? Is that also pragnya doing it? Are pragnya and the opposing intent present together?
Dadashri: The light is that of the pragnya, and the chit whose tendency (chit vruti) has become pure within, does that. But the light is of the pragnya, and that is why one can say that pragnya is doing it. It shows all the mistakes.
Questioner: But then the visible gestures and inner intents (haavbhaav) of pragnya that arises in opposition to what happens, do they happen at the same time?
Dadashri: That is not considered an opposing intent.
Questioner: Is, ‘This should not happen’, not an opposing intent? Does this not arise against any negative intent-view that happens?
Dadashri: ‘This should not happen’, is Atma bhaav – view of the Self, and what is happening is dehadhyas bhaav (view-intent of the non-Self, the body complex). Intent- view of both are different, are they not? That is the swabhav bhaav (of the Self), and the other is vibhaav bhaav (of the non-Self).
Questioner: So is pragnashakti itself vishesh bhaav?
Dadashri: No. Anger-pride-deceit-greed is called vishesh bhaav . I- ego and all that is vishesh bhaav.
Questioner: The movement and progress towards (Purushartha) the Self (Atma dharma), whose activity is that?
Dadashri: That is all pragnashakti. How long does this pragnashakti remain? By attaining this Gnan, You have become the Self, but the Self is still as in faith (shraddha), in conviction (pratiti), it is in Darshan (Vision), but it has not come into Knowledge (Gnan). It has not come into Conduct as the Self (Charitra), and so until then pragnashakti continues to do the work.
Questioner: Whatever work is being done by the pragnya, even if pragnashakti does the work, who suffers (bhogavey) those results?
Dadashri: What is there to suffer? There is no suffering in what is done by pragnashakti. There is just the bliss (anand), and bliss is one’s own nature. The one who did not have that bliss is the one in it.
Questioner: Who experiences that bliss? Does the relative (non-Self) or the Real (the Self) experiences that?
Dadashri: No, no. It is the relative that experiences it. The Real is already in bliss, is it not? The one who was missing such bliss is the one experiencing it. Tell me yourself, before you used to be this and now it is your ego that is experiencing it. Now that You have become the pure Soul (Shuddhatma), You have come into pragnya-swaroop – state of pragnya. The ego is the one experiencing it. Hence, the dejection it was experiencing, that which it was lacking, all goes away by experiencing this bliss. Plus minus happens.
Questioner: Who suffers at the time of unfolding of vedaniya karma (karma that brings suffering of pain), and at the same time, who is the knower of that suffering?
Dadashri: The ego suffers, and pragnya Knows. Pragnya also Knows the sufferer, and the sufferer suffers the pain. You can say the sufferer (vedak) is the ego. Everything comes into ego.
Ego believes ‘I am indeed the one suffering’. And so it suffers. That is why it is called the sufferer – vedak. And pragnashakti is the Knower in all that. Now, for many of our mahatmas, pragnashakti gets left behind, and they come into suffering view – vedak bhaav. This increases the pain, but they don’t incur any loss. If one becomes the body-mind form (tanmayakar) then the pain (dukha) will increase.
When I give prasad (scolding or even slapping the back, sometimes) to these youngsters; I give it to them with love and so they do not feel any pain, but they would feel pain if I were to do that with the slightest frown on my face. That is because there is ego involved in it. When given with love, the ego of neither the one taking the beating, nor the one giving the beating is involved, and that is why they feel good.
So if you become one with the sufferer (vedak, ego) you will suffer a lot of pain. Pain will be reduced a lot if You remain the Knower (Gnayak). Remaining as the Knower, makes it possible to give harsh treatment with love.
Questioner: Does speech become unveiled when a fraction of Gnan [Experience as the Self] happens?
Dadashri: Yes, it happens. Speech will unfold. And when speech [that which liberates] unfolds, if one is not allowed to speak, pragnya parishaha (inner burning where one is able but unable to share enlightened words) arises but cannot say anything. It will have to be suffered with equanimity. This [liberating] speech unfolds on its own. Later, that speech will become speech of Knowledge (Gnanvani). This means a speech that will make others understand, such a speech will come out. But when You are explaining to someone and he is not listening, at that time pragnya parishaha will arise for you.
Questioner: Is it possible that I may have a desire to speak, desire to explain [this] to someone, but I cannot express in words. Can that happen?
Dadashri: Yes, it can. Expression through words is a very great thing. When you keep listening, then shrutgnan (spoken knowledge that is heard) will express spontaneously (pragamey). And then it will become matignan (experiential knowledge through the 5 senses and mind). And then it will be spoken through speech. So you have to keep listening for a long time. Then it gels into yogurt, and later the ‘cream’ will express, and then it will turn into ‘ghee’ (final useful product, clarified butter). That is how it is in details.
And even if you want to point out someone’s mistake, if you want to talk about what you know, and you do not get the opportunity to do so, even then parishaha – inner burning will arise. ‘When can I say something? When can I tell him? When will I be able to speak?’ that is pragnya parishaha.
When the Lord talked about parishaha – different forms of suffering, he even referred to pragnya as parishaha in it. In the Kramic path, absolute Vision (samkit) arises after pragnya parishaha arises. There (in the Kramic path), absolute Vision only arises after that. And here (in the Akram path), all this comes out after one attains Gnan, and the ‘khichadee’ ( rice and lentil mixture dish) begins to cook.
If you were to go to upasharaya – Jain monastery, and talk, would anyone listen to you? Even if you were to tell the clear turths, they would not listen, would they? That is why pragnya parishaha would arise for you. You will feel irritation that, ‘No one wants to listen to my truth that I am speaking.’ And that is called parishaha. Pragnya becomes strong after You settle that parishaha with equanimity.
Questioner: Tell us something about shraddha (faith or belief), pragnya (light of the Self), drashta (Seer) and Chetan (the Self).
Dadashri: Drashta and Chetan are the same. There are two kinds of shraddha (faith; belief). Shraddha – faith kept in worldly interaction, is all illusory faith – mithyatva shraddha. And on this side it is faith with absolute Vision – samyaktva shraddha, which is called pratiti (conviction). It is a part of the Chetan (Self). Even pragnya is a part of Chetan, but pragnya is a separate part, different from shraddha which is the pratiti part, and then it [ pragnya]becomes one (with the Self). Whereas this shraddha, pratiti will remain separate forever. They are same by nature (swabhaav) and separate by attributes (guna).
Questioner: There are three English words for them: faith (shraddha), reason (pragnya) and consciousness (Chetan).
Dadashri: What is called a ‘meaning’? It is when it is when both balance the scale. Meaning if there are ten pounds on this side, then there must also be ten pounds on the other side. Whereas here there is ten pounds of faith, pragnya and Self and over there all three weigh one and a half pound.
Questioner: So an imbalance happens.
Dadashri: Hence, a pound and a half means it is gross. The other is the exact (yathartha) thing. So this is a pound and a half and the other is ten pounds.
Questioner: But you said that shraddha and pragnya are indeed two parts of Chetan (the Self)
Dadashri: No. Shraddha is its main nature. When it comes into pratiti (conviction) it is in the form of shraddha, and pragnya becomes separate [from the Self]. And the pragnya does its own work and then it becomes one with the Self again. Pragnya is there to destroy the ugnya (ignorance). Pragnya has the attribute of destroying ugnya, but after destroying ugnya, it immediately becomes one with the Self. So pragnya is itself the Self, but it is called pragnya because it separates from the Self.
Questioner: So then shraddha is the base here. It is what you call pratiti.
Dadashri: Pratiti is the base, yes. Hence, things go on based on whether pratiti of the world [people] is positive or it is negative. Negative pratiti will make one wander in the worldly life, and pratiti (conviction) that is set right will take him to moksha. It just needs a nimit – someone instrumental in establishing that pratiti.
Questioner: So this natural sooj (insight; intuition) that one has, what relation does it have with pragnya?
Dadashri: That sooj itself takes one towards pragnya. Yes, it is that sooj that is working. If something is working naturally in this, it is the sooj. It is indeed the sooj that is working in the ugnya (ignorant) stage.
Questioner: Is it not a part of pragnya?
Dadashri: No, sooj is the opening up of veils (avaran).
Questioner: But does it take one towards pragnya?
Dadashri: It indeed takes towards the permanent.
Questioner: So where does bhaav (inner intent) come into this?
Dadashri: That bhaav that one does, that verily happens from that sooj (understanding). Ego is a different thing. But the understanding that is there, it keeps increasing and increasing and goes all the way to pragnya. And when pragnya arises, it becomes one with the Self. But sooj is the part of understanding; one does bhaav according to that understanding, according to that knowledge.
Questioner: Can sooj be called pragnya?
Dadashri: No. Pragnya is Gnan (Knowledge), and sooj is darshan (vision). And ugnya is considered buddhi (intellect). So ‘We’ can see everything. We can see everything that is happening in front-behind, we can even see what is happening in the back. So that person will say, ‘I am standing behind [you], is my hand raised or not?’ That we cannot see; ‘we’ cannot see gross (sthool) and overt things. We can see subtle things. Any part, which is subtle (sookshma), ‘we’ can see all that. All that can be seen due to understanding. The gross is seen when keval Gnan becomes complete.
I have seen it all, from the ‘basement’ to the ‘ceiling’. I have seen what it is like at the bottom, what it is like at the top. What is the perspective? Because I have ‘seen’ from every direction, I discovered, these are the facts. Very few people can see from the “perspective view” [total panoramic view and outlook]. To see while standing in front of something and to see the “perspective view”, both cannot happen simultaneously. ‘We’ know how to do that.
Questioner: Dada, is that called sooj?
Dadashri: No. That is darshan. Everyone has sooj. Sooj is based on each individual’s capacity. Vision (Darshan) is that which is spread out; Vision is that which encompasses vastness. That is something very unique. Yes, despite all the bitter experiences, it keeps You in bliss; that is something very unique, is it not?
Questioner: This tape record speaks and I am listening. Then, ‘this is a taped record and I am Seeing it’, so is the part that Sees a part of pragnya?
Dadashri: That part is pragnya.
Questioner: That is why you say that, ‘I am speaking after Seeing ’, right?
Dadashri: I am speaking after Seeing. What used to be a state of ignorance (ugnyasthiti), that has now become a state of pragnya (pragnyasthiti). With what have ‘we’ seen this Akram Vignan? Through pragnashakti. Knowledge seen through buddhi is helpful in worldly life, but ‘here’ [for liberation] pure Gnan will be needed.
Questioner: Ugnya (intellect) means uGnan (ignorance), is that not so? That is how we derive the meaning of uGnan. But ugnya means who? Where does ugnya begin? The boundry upto the beginning of pragnya is that of the buddhi. That is all considered as ugnya indeed. So, is ugnya lower than the buddhi, or is it a level the same as the buddhi?
Dadashri: It is considered ugnya from the time buddhi begins. As buddhi increases, so does the ugnya.
Questioner: Is uGnan (ignorance) considered a stage lower than the buddhi?
Dadashri: uGnan (ignorance) is a different thing and ugnya (intellect) is a different thing.
Questioner: Yes, that is indeed what I want to understand. Please explain the difference between uGnan and ugnya.
Dadashri: uGnan is a form of knowledge (gnan) and ugnya is no knowledge of any kind. It is just buddhi, so if one says that this is true, then the other person will say that this other is true. It will not allow any agreement. Profit and loss is from one’s own view-vision. Both will have a different view in regards to profit, in everything. Ugnya is always looking at only profit and loss. That is its whole business, whereas uGnan is not like that.
Questioner: ‘There is a kind of knowledge in uGnan’ – please explain this.
Dadashri: uGnan means to know all the worldly knowledge, and to know about the Self is called Gnan. Ugnya arises to attain uGnan, and pragnya arises to attain Gnan.
Questioner: Yes, uGnan means right or wrong, but is it gnan (knowledge)?
Dadashri: No, uGnan means gnan of one kind, but it is vishesha gnan – extra knowledge. It is not wrong. It is an extra gnan (knowledge) of the Self. It is a knowledge that is in addition to the knowledge of the Self. It is extra knowledge but it generates pain (dukhadayi), it is does not generate bliss like the knowledge of the Self. Which is why it is called uGnan.
Extra means knowledge in addition to the knowledge of the Self arises, but because it is relative knowledge, it is destructible. Therefore it is of no use to us. We [Self] are the enjoyer (bhokta) of the permanent bliss; we are enjoyer of eternal bliss. The one who abandons the eternal happiness and wanders like this, there is no telling where he will end up (in his next life). Today he is in the human form. Tomorrow he will become awkward with four legs! How can this be called respectable? But it is good that one is not aware of this. If he did, he would stop showing arrogance; he would become very docile.
Questioner: Who separates the real and the relative?
Dadashri: Would You not recognize everything that is destructive (temporary)? Everything that is seen through the mind-body-speech, that is through the eyes, that is heard through the ears; it is all relative. And the real means indestructible (avinashi). There is pragnashakti within. It separates the two. It separates that which is of the relative (non-Self) and it separates that which is of the Real (the Self).
Questioner: So does that mean that there are three: relative, Real and pragnya, Dada? Is pragnya separate from the Real?
Dadashri: Pragnya is actually energy (shakti) of the Real, but it is the energy that has separated from the Self. In the absence of the relative, it becomes one with the Self.
Questioner: Is pragnya relative or Real?
Dadashri : It is relative- Real. It goes back to its main location when its work is done; it goes back into the Self. Pragnya is ‘relative- Real’. If it were Real, then it would be called indestructible.
Questioner : When that ‘relative- Real’ becomes Real ‘, there is no relative, is there?
Dadashri: There cannot be relative in the Real. Relative is indeed destructible. So pragnya is destructible for sure but it is Real. So it goes back into its own nature (the Self). It is not completely destructible.
Questioner: Is there any control of pragnya over the relative?
Dadashri: No one has any control whatsoever. On the contrary the relative had control over the Real. So one used to scream, ‘I am bound. I am bound. Free me, free’. So it’s when the Gnani Purush liberates him that he feels relief of ‘aah! Now I am free!’
Questioner: What is the relation between bhedaGnan (Knowledge that separates the Self from the non-Self) that is constantly keeping the separation within and pragnya?
Dadashri: Gnani Purush makes that separation for You, and then pragnya will arise thereafter. Pragnya will not arise until then. And until that separation is made, there is ugnya for sure.
Questioner: What is the difference between that pragnya and bhedaGnan (knowledge that separates the Self from the non-Self)?
Dadashri: Pragnya arises only when bhedaGnan happens. Pragnya is light. BhedaGnan is also a light, but it is a light only to separate the two (Self and the non-Self).
Questioner: And is pragnya’s light permanent?
Dadashri: And the light of pragnya is temporary-permanent. It gives You full light from all sides until it takes You to moksha (final liberation). It will not leave You, once it arises.
Questioner: What should one do to bring on the force of the pragnya?
Dadashri: Pragnya will arise when you follow the five Agnas, nothing else. If you ask who causes the attraction that You have of remaining in the five Agnas? The answer is pragnya does that. That which gives You light, is called pragnya.
Buddhi will die if you do ‘that’
Questioner: ‘I am Shuddhatma and not the body’; does buddhi say that also?
Dadashri: Buddhi does not say that. Buddhi will not let you say ‘I am Shuddhatma’, at all, because if it were to let you say ‘I am Shuddhatma’, then that would cause its own destruction. Its existence would go away. Hence it will never take that position. If it were to say ‘I am Shuddhatma’, then the entire existence of the mind-buddhi-chit-ego would go away. Whole existence of the mind-buddhi-chit and ego will go away if it said that. So even the mind will not accept that (after attaining Gnan). They all do understand but when the force of discharge comes, they will not accept it. The buddhi will always be on the side of the worldly life; it will never be on the side of Shuddhatma (pure Soul). It is on the opposite side.
Questioner: Does pratisthit atma (relative self) say, ‘I am Shuddhatma’?
Dadashri: It does not say it. Pragnya that separates from the Self says, ‘I am Shuddhatma’, and it ‘Sees” the pratisthit atma, it ‘Sees” what that ‘top’ is doing. It becomes Shhuddhatma and Sees that.
Questioner: Pragnya ‘Sees” that?
Dadashri: Pragnya indeed will take over all the work until final liberation—moksha. Pragnya will unite with Shuddhatma as soon as this stock—discharging karma is finished.
Questioner: When one says ‘I am Shuddhatma’, is that also Seen by pragnya?
Dadashri: ‘Taped record’ says that and the bhaav (view) is of pragnya.
Questioner: So then, is that considered sahaj (natural) activity of pragnya?
Dadashri: Every activity of pragnya is sahaj; it is indeed natural.
Questioner: Is there any relation between Shuddhatma and pratisthit atma through pragnya?
Dadashri: A relation between the two? ‘You’ have relation with pragnya. Those other people (without Gnan) do not even have pragnya. They have relation with ugnya.
Questioner: Is there any relation with the Self through ignorance (uGnan)?
Dadashri: uGnan cannot touch the Self, and how can darkness touch light? It is considered baseless and without support, whereas the other stands on its own.
Questioner: What do you mean by its own?
Dadashri: Its own natural attributes (gunadharma). Pudgal (non-Self complex) is on its attributes. Pratisthit atma means power. The one with power [charged in the presence of the Self in the past life] comes to an end and nothing happens to the main thing [the Self]. That is it; there is nothing else.
Questioner: Did pratisthit atma arise from the main thing?
Dadashri: Yes. But it is circumstance dependent.
Questioner: Who is it that ‘knows’ the prakruti, and functions according to the prakruti?
Dadashri: That is the ego (ahamkar); that is all. It knows the prakruti. When it sits down to think; it knows everything.
It knows all about how the mistakes happened. There is only a certain part, that it does not know, otherwise it knows everything. It can know up to 99, not 100.If one trains the intellect (buddhi) to that extent, it can know up to 99. But even then the work [salvation] cannot be accomplished by the ego. [For that] only shuddha (the pure) is needed.
Questioner: Who is the one that knows the Self and functions on its own support?
Dadashri: That is Your pragnashakti (energy of the Self). It Knows through its own light. To function means not in the language of ‘to function’. It spreads!
Questioner: Is everything not illuminated in the State of the Self? The State of the Self (swaroop) is like that of a mirror; the mirror does not come out to see. But everything is reflected [illuminated] in [through] the mirror.
Dadashri: That which is illuminated is a different thing. But this is Gnayak (Knower). So right now, whose activity of Knowing (Gnayakta) is it? It is of pragnashakti. Yes, because right now pragnashakti is ‘doing the work’ (karyakari). The original Self cannot be karyakari. As long as the worldly life is there, this active energy of pragnashakti has arisen. This pragnya, after all the work is done, after winding everything up, goes to moksha.
Questioner: Is there any difference between pragnashakti and awakened awareness (jagruti)?
Dadashri: Pragnashakti, is the pure energy (shakti) of the Self and [in] awareness there is purity as well as impurity. Awareness gradually and incrementally becomes pure, and when it is becomes completely pure, it is called absolute Knowledge (keval Gnan).
Questioner: Now that we are sitting in the ship to moksha, will the pragnashakti go away, later on?
Dadashri: Pragnyashakti will help until You reach moksha, and then pragnashakti will leave.
Questioner: Does awareness (jagruti) do any work after reaching moksha? Does jagruti become dim?
Dadashri: No, no, nothing, it becomes separated. Jagruti is not there at all. There is only the Light (Prakash) there, thereafter.
Questioner: So then, is jagruti needed till one attains moksha; or is pragnya shakti needed?
Dadashri: Yes. Pragnashakti and jagruti run concurrently. Pragnashakti keeps guiding and turning Him, and awareness grabs on to it.
Root of Ugnyashakti
Questioner: Ugnyashakti arises from an imagination energy (kalpshakti) of the main Soul (the Self). Is kalpshakti the nature (swabhaav) of the Soul?
Dadashri: No. Ugnyashakti arises scientifically. These six (eternal) elements are constantly moving. In that, when Self (Chetan) and non-Self (pudgal) become mixed, ugnashakti arises. And when ‘We’ separate the two, ugnashakti goes away; ego (ahamkar)-myness (mamata) both go away.
Just as the ignorance (uGnan) that increased from the pressure from circumstances external (to the Self) that gave rise to the state of ignorance (uGnan pada); similarly; the state of Knowledge (Gnan pada) arose through this other pressure [through the evidentiary nimit of Gnani Purush].
That Cannot be Pragnya
Questioner: Whatever state of the Self (swabhaav) that arises, do we call that part pragnya?
Dadashri: That is not the pragnya part. The One that even knows view of the state of the Self (swabhaav-bhaav) that has arisen is pragnya. The One that Knows how much of the vishesh-bhaav (identification with the non-Self; the belief of ‘I am Chandubhai’) decreased and how much swabhaav-bhaav (view of the state of the Self) increases, is pragnya. And at that time, the one that Knows what the Self is; is pragnya.
Questioner: Even pragnya increases and decreases, does it not?
Dadashri: Of-course, even pragnya increases and decreases. It increases (guru) and decreases (laghu). It is because till the view of the state of the Self (swabhaav-bhaav) ultimately comes to completion and the view of the state of the ego (aham-bhaav) ends, that is when pragnya itself comes to an end. Up until then, this pragnya continues working.
Questioner: Does Dada have pragnya? Dada, it is about you.
Dadashri: Everyone; one cannot do without pragnya, can one?
Queastioner: The satsang that Dada does, all the worldly interaction that goes on, is that all through pragnya?
Questioner: But pragnya is for us, not for You, is it?
Dadashri: Of-course it is. There is pragnya within Me too. Pragnya ends when keval Gnan happens, and it becomes one with the Self.
Questioner: It becomes one (with the Self).
Dadashri: It becomes one. Until then it remains separate, otherwise how would there be meddling [on Dada’s part] of, ‘Come here, I will give Gnan to you?’ Is that not meddling? That meddling is due to pragnya.
Questioner: Pragnya makes you meddle.
Dadashri: Yes, and the one who does not have pragnya, will not meddle. If you are going to be harmed, he will not say anything even when you do his darshan. ‘We’ do not become emotional at that time, because ‘we’ do not have buddhi. Buddhi does not make us emotional. Pragnya makes ‘us’ meddle. When ‘we’ talk about your benefit-harm, ‘we’ are considered meddlesome (khapatia). ‘Our’ meddling is so that you all attain the happiness that ‘we’ have attained. This is ‘our’ meddling. And if you do not come to attain it, ‘we’ would ask, ‘Dear fellow, why did you not come yesterday?’ One may ask, ‘What do you get out of it?’ ‘We’ would tell him, ‘This is ‘our’ meddling, not self-interest.’ People tell me, ‘Why don’t you get rid of the word ‘meddle’ (khatpat)? It sounds bad.’ I tell them, ‘No, no, only this word is befitting. It itself is a beautiful word.’ Just you wait, one day you will realize its value. You will find value for the word ‘khatpat’ one day. People have developed aversion towards this word, but they will be pleased with the word ‘khatpat’ – meddling. Meddling can also be like this, it can be like that other, but it can also be like this.
Questioner: Dada Bhagwan’s grace (krupa) and Gnani Purush’s grace, are they different? What is the difference?
Dadashri: I would know that Dada Bhagwan’s grace on this person is good but for the Gnani, grace or no grace, he does not have anything to do with. He does not have much to do with it.
Questioner: Why does the Gnani not have anything to do with the grace?
Dadashri: No, when Dada Bhagwan’s graces one, the Gnani does not have to do anything, does he?
Questioner: But generally it is said ‘Gnani’s rajipo, Gnani’s grace?
Dadashri: You have to say that in the worldly interaction. That is God itself, and that is everything. Here ‘we’ are making the distinction, but elsewhere, they do not make such distinction, do they? The reason ‘we’ make such distinction is so that people would feel that this is correct, that it is a clear thing. And ‘we’ do not have any desire to become God.
Questioner: But Dada Bhagwan within is vitarag, is he not?
Dadashri: Yes vitarag.
Questioner: Then where is the question of Him gracing someone more or less?
Dadashri: No, it’s not like that. Aside of Him, we Gnanis do not have a desire that it would be nice if people called us God. We do not need to taste that sweetness. All hunger is gone.
Questioner: No, that is correct, but our Dada Bhagwan…
Dadashri: He is complete vitarag, is he not!
Questioner: Is the flowing down of grace that happens, is it not automatic? Is that not independent? Or is it Dada Bhagwan’s grace (krupa)?
Dadashri: Dada Bhagwan, he is a vitarag Lord, but grace comes through pragnya.
Questioner: But the Gnani Purush is the Atma, the Self Himself, so where does pragnya come in?
Dadashri: No, grace descends through it. Pragnya will be everywhere. As long as he does not attain moksha, pragnya will continue to work from the outside [in interactions of the world].
Questioner: So grace flows upon us through pragnya.
Dadashri: Yes, grace is through pragnya, therefore ‘we’ will know that man has been graced.
Questioner: But is there not a problem with vitaragta as far as pragnya is concerned?
Dadashri: Pragnya is never vitarag.
Questioner: Is pragnya not vitarag?
Dadashri: It is never vitarag. Pragnya has come solely for the problem of settling everything. It’s job is to settle everything by any means and take one to moksha.
Questioner: But Your pragnya is much higher.
Dadashri: It is very highly developed, but the function is just the same, is it not? ‘We’ would even tell him, ‘dear man, the Lord’s grace upon you has diminished’.
Questioner: So it is about pragnya indeed.
Dadashri: Yes, but ‘we’ even tell him the reason for the decrease in grace; when he turns the causes [makes a correction], grace flows again.
Questioner: But all that talk is about pragnya.
Dadashri: That ‘Dada Bhagwan’ is indeed vitarag, is he not? A Vitarag does not have anything to do with it.
Questioner: Hence pragnya remains until one attains keval Gnan, right?
Dadashri: Until then, it is pragnya all the way. Not after one attains keval Gnan.
Questioner: One becomes Tirthankar or kevli after attaining keval Gnan; then there is no question about his grace because there is no pragnya.
Dadashri: Everything is finished, is it not? Everything ends. As long as there is pragnya, there is some give and take with the body. Thereafter there is complete separation from the body. ‘We’ have not attained keval Gnan. Nevertheless, yes, ‘We’ have Seen (Darshan) what keval Gnan is.
Questioner: Who makes us instrumental in doing the work of jagat kalyan (salvation of the world)?
Dadashri: All this work is of the pragnya shakti. The Self does not make you do any of it. The Self does not have any energy at all to make you do that. Egoism is a nimit.
Questioner: Egoism is a nimit. ‘I am doing’ – is that the nimit?
Dadashri: Yes, who makes it do it? The answer is ‘pragnya shakti’. Everything is the work of pragnya shakti.
Questioner: Now, all this that is ‘seen’, is ‘seen’ within the Self, but the ‘Seer” is another entity, is it not?
Dadashri: It seems that it is within the Self. What is seen is separate.
Questioner: Yes, but the one who describes it, that Seer is separate, is he not?
Dadashri: Describing is the work of pragnya. Ugnya shakti (energy of ignorance) used to describe through energy of intellect (buddhi). And pragnya does it through the energy of Gnan; through the natural energy of the Self.
Questioner: Ugnya says it with acquisitiveness (parigraha), and pragnya speaks without acquisitiveness (parigraha).
Dadashri: Not even a trace of parigraha. No parigraha!
Questioner: When we remain in the Knower-Seer view (Gnata-Drashta bhaav), is it pragnya that remains so or is it the Self (Atma)?
Dadashri: No, right now pragnya is the Knower-Seer. Pragnya itself is a part of the Self. Right now, all the work is being done by pragnya. When that pragnya becomes one with the Self, keval Gnan happens, and soon after attaining keval Gnan, the Self goes to moksha.
Questioner : Right now, the Self of You- the Gnani Purush is the Knower-Seer (Gnata-Drashta). For us pragnya is the Knower-Seer.
Dadashri: For me too, it is the pragnya. Until keval Gnan happens, it is pragnya.
Questioner: So then, the Self Knows and Sees everything, the Knower-Seer is the Self itself, is it not?
Dadashri: Yes, but it is the part that is called pragnya.
Questioner: So then, after attaining Gnan, who is the one that Sees his own prakruti (relative self, the non-Self complex)?
Dadashri: The Self itself, who else? Everything is on the Self. But then, the Self means pragnya (here). Here, you cannot directly consider the Self. The Self (Atma) means pragnya is doing all the work but we say the Atma – the Self. We simply call it the Self – that is all.
Questioner: Before, my understanding was that after attaining Gnan, for us mahatmas, pragnya maintains proper awakened awareness (jagruti). The moment any mistake (dosh) happens, it cautions me right away, ‘these are all the mistakes being made’.
Dadashri: Yes, it cautions.
Questioner: But I was not quite aware who the Knower-Seer was.
Dadashri: No, pragnya is indeed the Knower-Seer everywhere. The Self can only See keval Gnan.
Questioner: Therefore, the Self becomes Knower-Seer only when keval Gnan happens, until then only pragnya does all the work.
Dadashri: Even this can be called the Self. Do not separate the two. If you try to do so, then you will not understand.
Questioner: Then why are you calling it pragnya? Why not just call it the Self.
Dadashri: Yes. That is what ‘we’ say, but then people bring it up again. Details are given for the purpose of understanding. But do not interpret the details to be that it is this way…
Questioner: If one were to look at it minutely, then it is pragnya, and at a gross level it is the Self. So then does the main Self not caution us?
Dadashri: Yes, the main Self does not caution you. Right now, pragnya is cautioning you. It then becomes one with the Self. At that time our whole ‘Ramayan’ (tale of our karma) comes to end, it [Pragnya] too becomes one.
The Gnan through which one becomes free from the worldly life is called Atma Gnan – knowledge of the Self, and when that Gnan is being used, it is called pragnya.
That which keeps one in Conduct as the Self (vartana) is the Self, and that which keeps on in conviction based faith (shraddha) is pragnya. Vartan means Conduct as the Self (Charitra ).
Questioner: The Seer within You, is it called pragnya or the Self? In Your case, can it be called pragnya or not?
Dadashri: It is indeed called pragnya. You cannot call it anything but pragnya. You cannot call it the Self at all. In the state of worldly life, only pragnya keeps working. It cautions You within.
Scp note to Shrutiben—-keep this 3 defination before the matter starts as done by vinodbhai.will help the reader ubderstand this complex matter
[dhyata – the meditator.
dhyeya – the object/goal of meditation.
dhyan – meditation/ that links dhyata to dhyeya]
Questioner: What are dhyata, dhyeya and dhyan? Is dhyata the pure Self or is it the relative self (pratishthit atma – the one with the belief of ‘I am Chandubhai’)?
Dadashri: After attaining Gnan, pragnya (direct light of the Self) is the dhyata (meditator), not pratishthit atma. Pragnya is dhyata, and dhyeya is the ‘Self’; ‘I am Shuddhatma’ that is the goal. When dhyata and dhyeya unite, it gives rise to dhyan (meditation).
Questioner: Right now, can Shuddhatma not be considered dhyata (meditator)?
Dadashri: Shuddhatma is our dhyeya (goal). To become Shuddhatma is our goal. Shuddhatma is indeed the Paramatma (absolute Self), whatever you call it, that is what it is. Meditator (dhyata) is pragnya, goal (dhyeya) is Shuddhatma. This is so because this state of Shuddhatma that ‘we’ have granted You, is the state of conviction (pratiti pada). You have not completely become Shuddhatma yet. However, if unacceptable conduct unfolds, then do not feel guilty and ruined that my state is spoiled. That is why ‘We’ say Shuddhatma.
For now, You may take Shuddhatma either in the form of pragnya, or the state of antaratma (interim Self; awakened Self). This state of antaratma or pragnya exists only as far as files have to be settled. When all the files are settled, it is ‘full government’; it is Paramatma.
Questioner: Then what is the difference between the Gnan, Vignan and pragnya?
Dadashri: Gnan means that one has to do it. Whatever he knows, he has to do all that. And Vignan means it happens on its own. You do not have to do anything. And pragnya is a state between these two. Once you understand scientifically that one can die by taking certain medicine, you will never take that medicine ever again. Provided you understand that scientifically. And if someone is informed (and he does not understand the scientific) that this is something poisonous and taking it as medicine will kill; then he may even take that medicine. So, any knowledge that has its own activity (kriyakari) is considered Vignanik Gnan. Knowledge that itself is kriyakari is Vignan. And the knowledge that is not kriyakari, knowledge that leads one to do, that is called gnan (knowledge). To keep kindness, to keep peace, all that has to be ‘done’. That which cannot be done by the Self (potey-the I) is called gnan (knowledge).
Therefore in scriptures, there is gnan – knowledge, but not Vignan – that which happens on its own. Scriptures contain scriptural knowledge. And ‘this’ is Vignan, so Knowledge as the Self (Chetan Gnan), continues to work within; the Gnan itself continues to do the work within. And, no matter how much scriptural knowledge you read, or memorize, it does not do the work. You have to do it yourself. And Vignan continues to work by itself. It gives awareness within, everything happens by itself. It continues to work for You within, does it not? That is called Vignan. What is Vignan? It is Chetan Gnan –Knowledge of the Knower-Seer, is Knowledge that has awakened, it is indeed Vignan, and that indeed is the Atma – the Self. Right now it is in the state of pragnya. When pragnya has finished doing its work, when the files will have been settled, then pragnya will revert back to its own Self-state as the absolute Self (Paramatma).
Questioner: When is pragnya one with the Self?
Dadashri: Right now it is not one with the Self, but what does that mean? Pragnya is the Self state. As long as the Self has not [fully] manifested, immediate cautioning of any faults is the work of pragnya. When vitaragata (state of absolute absence of attachment or abhorrence) is attained, when mistakes do not happen externally, pragnya itself is the ‘swaroop’ (the absolute Self).
Questioner: This oneness (abhedata) that happens, can it be called the highest level of intellect or not?
Dadashri: No, that oneness means absence of intellect; that is Gnanbhaav. Through Gnan we are all one, and through the intellect we are all separate.
Questioner: Does pragnya come into this or not?
Dadashri: That is indeed it! We all are indeed ‘one’ through pragnya, but separate through intellect. ‘We’ had destroyed intellect in ‘us’. ‘We’ had removed it in whichever way ‘we’ could. ‘We’ had brought closure whenever intellect unfolded. ‘We’ did not support unfolding of intellect. Most of the intellect was removed in the past life, which is why we did not have to get rid of much in this life. This is because we did so previously. Does buddhi not bother you much now?
Questioner: What does oneness mean? ‘May I attain complete oneness’, do we not ask for this in the Charan Vidhi?
Dadashri: Oneness means to become tanmayakar – to become engrossed in the Self. We become one with God. Right now how much separation you and Shuddhatma have? You have become Shuddhatma at the conviction level (pratiti). You have complete faith that ‘I am Shuddhatma’, You have assurance of this. You have attained some experience (anubhav) but You have not become That (the absolute Self). So You are telling the Lord within, ‘let me become That’. That is oneness.
Questioner: So there is no separation whatsoever.
Dadashri: There is separation; you still have separation. I still have to make you Shuddhatma. Afterwards I do not have to: afterwards You become one ( abheda) with the Self.
Questioner: Ego becomes ‘one’ with Shuddhatma, does it not?
Dadashri: No, not the ego. This pragnya, which has separated [from the Self] for the purpose of settling (nikaal) worldly interaction (vyavahar), that pragnya when it becomes one [with the Self], then the work is done.
Questioner: Who becomes abheda (one) with whom?
Dadashri: Pragnya and Shuddhatma. These two which are separate, they become one. Right now, the ‘I-ness (hoon panu) is prevailing in pragnya. That in which we are currently prevailing is in pragnya, we no longer prevail in ego (‘I am Chandubhai’). So when ‘I’ was being in ‘Chandubhai’, it is called being in ego. Now the ‘I’ is being as pragnya, therefore it is as the interim Self (antar Atma), not as Shuddhatma.
‘Our’ pragnya on the most part is almost like being still in the Self (Atma). Therefore ‘we’ do not have to say ‘Shuddhatma’ or ‘we’ do not have to think about it. And in that state ‘we’ experience the oneness (abhedata). It is a little short by four degrees. And You have yet to become abheda (one with the Self). Gradually as the files are being slowly settled, one gradually begins to become abheda. Once the files are completely settled, one becomes abheda. All these problems are indeed due to the files. But right now You (the awakened Self) are in the state of pragnya, and pragnya is a certain part of God (the absolute Self). When the work is completed, pragnya will become one with the Self again. God and the absolute Self are indeed one. When the self (jivatma) becomes free from the worldly life and remains only as the Self, it is then called Paramatma. Constant absorption as the Self (swaroop ni ramanata) is indeed the absolute Self (Paramatma). And when there is absorption in the absolute Self but also the absorption in the self, it is called antaratma; that verily is pragnya!
JAI SAT CHIT ANAND
The Awareness of the Eternal is Bliss
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Gnani Purush Dadashri, attained the experience of the absolute Self in 1958. In 1962 through the accomplished energy of the Self he graced a seeker, Chandrakant Patel, by performing the now famous Gnan Vidhi wherein he too attained the beginning experience of the Self that is absolutely separate from th mind-speech-body complex called the self. This initial experience of the Self in the participant, now known as a mahatma, is associated with a fundamental change in the view and vision that now begins to See and Know all aspects of the mind-body-ego complex called the self. A new Light, light of Knowledge begins within, that is able to see all mistakes of the worldly interacting self with a worldly name. The Self that awakens in the Gnan Vidhi now progresses to further experiences in a state that is absolutely independent and separate from the visible and subtle body mind interactions. This process of liberation and progress towards the experience of the absolute Self is accomplished by an energy called pragnya. Words cannot describe the state of the Self that is beyond the experiences of the mind-speech and body. The energy of pragnya maintains the separation of the Self from the non-self. In the book the satsang on pragnya compiled by Dr. Niruben Amin, is now being made available in English for the world. All aspects of this liberating energy of the Self, are revealed by Gnani Purush Dadashri, in this book. Until pragnya arises the prevailing energy of human beings is ugnya energy or ignorance or darkness. This ignorance is the absence of the knowledge-experience of the Self. Pragnya can only arise with Self-realization. Self-realization can happen in one of two ways. One way to liberation is by one's own self efforts. The other is the easy way, through the meeting with a Gnani Purush. This is easy when the Gnan Vidhi happens through the grace of the Gnani Purush. This direct easy path to Self bliss is called Akram Vignan. If there was a thousand watts light bulb fitted within a clay pot, and the opening of the pot was closed tight, would there be any light around? No, you would not be able to see any light. This is the case with the ignorant self, the one who is not aware of the eternal Self within. Within you there is infinite light of Knowledge, but the darkness prevails because of the layers of ignorance over the Self. With the grace and special internal power known as siddhi of the Gnani Purush, if a tiny hole is made in the clay-pot covering the light bulb, the whole room will be filled with the light coming through. That much covering is broken and that much direct light comes out. This light increases as more of the layers are lifted and as more holes are made in the pot. And when the whole pot is destroyed and separated, detached away from the bulb, there will be a flood of full light everywhere. Pragnya is this direct light. It is the light that is of the Self.